What Changes When We Hit 3,525?

[Ed_on_WD]

"Don't know about hay for export. I would remind you that hay weighs 65# per bale and sells for $140 to $185 per ton. No one is going "export" very much at those numbers."

15 square miles of farmland were purchased by the Saudis over 6 years ago. There have probably been more purchases since then.

It was cheaper for the Saudis to grow alfalfa in LA Paz County, AZ and ship it back to Arabia, because growing their own hay in Arabia would mean using very expensive desalinated water on their own poor soil.

Why are Saudi Arabian cows still eating Arizona's water?

Out-of-state and foreign interests are draining Arizona's groundwater. It's a problem the government has known about for years.

www.azcentral.com

 

[Havalina]

You need to read the 1968 Colorado river basin project act. In a nut shell the a lot of farmers (Pinal County) traded for junior water rights for cheaper water from the project canal. This gave the municipalities senior water rights.

The lower basin states are the largest alfalfa hay exporters in the U.S. Both cotton and alfalfa are big cash export crops for both California and Arizona. I really do wish that I was kidding!

Long-Term Hay Exports have Increased Dramatically, but are Dampened by Recent Trade Disputes | Alfalfa & Forage News

Alfalfa and grass hays produced in the US ending up feeding dairy cows in Riyadh or Bengbu? Who would have thought? What was once a minor curiosity has fully emerged as a major market for western US hay producers.

ucanr.edu

 

[Chukardog]

I am an agricultural water user in Colorado. My family and extended families have been in AG for over a hundred years.
I have raised hay and everything else: hay, corn, beans, etc. and every vegetable and fruit you can think of. I have had multiple NRCS and CSU grants.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Don't know about hay for export. I would remind you that hay weighs 65# per bale and sells for $140 to $185 per ton. No one is going "export" very much at those numbers. BTW, hay is used primarily for the meat (beef) industry: "food for consumption."

I have never heard of a farmer trading for a junior water right.

"most of the farmers traded for junior water rights for cheaper water up front. Now, that restrictions are coming to fruition they will just start pumping more to make up for the loss from the colorado." Are you kidding?

BTW, nice boat.

If you have hay for sale at 140.00 per ton I'll take all you've got

 

[Dorado]

I am an agricultural water user in Colorado. My family and extended families have been in AG for over a hundred years.
I have raised hay and everything else: hay, corn, beans, etc. and every vegetable and fruit you can think of. I have had multiple NRCS and CSU grants.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Don't know about hay for export. I would remind you that hay weighs 65# per bale and sells for $140 to $185 per ton. No one is going "export" very much at those numbers. BTW, hay is used primarily for the meat (beef) industry: "food for consumption."

I have never heard of a farmer trading for a junior water right.

"most of the farmers traded for junior water rights for cheaper water up front. Now, that restrictions are coming to fruition they will just start pumping more to make up for the loss from the colorado." Are you kidding?

BTW, nice boat.

Selling Hay grown in Southern California to asia is pretty common. The only way this happens is with cheap, subsidized water. With the amount of water it takes to grow that hay, it is like filling shipping containers full of water to Japan an Korea.

Booming demand for hay in Asia, Middle East driving agribusiness in the California desert

Hay grown along the Colorado River is increasingly being shipped overseas to countries from China to Saudi Arabia

www.desertsun.com

 

[Paladin]

If you have hay for sale at 140.00 per ton I'll take all you've got

Hay has been $125 to $200 per ton for as long as I can remember.
See Western Slope Craig's List. You can't buy all the hay for sale.

 

[Wetinhavasu]

Lake Havasu is a very small lake, most of it is less than 30 feet deep not going to make much of an impact. Besides we all love lake Powell as much as anyone on this site and are very concerned about what has happened the last couple of years

 

[svivian]

Hay has been $125 to $200 per ton for as long as I can remember.
See Western Slope Craig's List. You can't buy all the hay for sale.

Dang I'll buy some too. We grow and sell hay as well on the western slope and we can't keep enough selling at $300 per ton.

 

[Paladin]

You need to read the 1968 Colorado river basin project act. In a nut shell the a lot of farmers (Pinal County) traded for junior water rights for cheaper water from the project canal. This gave the municipalities senior water rights.

The lower basin states are the largest alfalfa hay exporters in the U.S. Both cotton and alfalfa are big cash export crops for both California and Arizona. I really do wish that I was kidding!

Long-Term Hay Exports have Increased Dramatically, but are Dampened by Recent Trade Disputes | Alfalfa & Forage News

Alfalfa and grass hays produced in the US ending up feeding dairy cows in Riyadh or Bengbu? Who would have thought? What was once a minor curiosity has fully emerged as a major market for western US hay producers.

ucanr.edu

Lived in Phx for 30 years and I am aware of all the shucking and jiving with water rights. Remember the Planet Ranch? Scottsdale was particularly notorious.

For all intents and purposes La Paz county was and is a desert; Pinal not much better ( at least the east and southern portions.) Those water deals were done for profit. Crappy farming gave way to the lure of money and phony commitments to feed the rapid growth of Phx and its suburbs. The Arizona Canal and all of the drilling could not keep up and everyone knew it. The serious farming in AZ is along the Salt and Gila corridors. They get 10 cuttings of alfalfa in Maricopa and I suppose that some of that that is exported although I still can't see the math. I read the articles, I just did not believe them.

The fact of the matter is that none of that ******** impacts the water inflowing to Lake Powell from the Colorado River. And that should be the concern of the participants of these threads.

My comments Re: farming on this board refer to Colorado farming with adjudicated water rights. That's the water that LP lovers should be concerned with. I now live on the Uncompahgre Plateau ( Montrose) and am active in agriculture here. The view of water users here is significantly different from that of users in the lower basin states...as it should be.

The concern of all of us should be the maintenance of LP, not of whose water-ox is going to be gored.

The long term resolution will be tough, and wind up in court. The short term resolution is simple: reduce outflows and raise the lake.

Can I get a ride in your boat??

Dang I'll buy some too. We grow and sell hay as well on the western slope and we can't keep enough selling at $300 per ton.

We 've got about 200 tons left. Moving the cows in 3 wks. I'll give you a call.

 

[Gem Morris]

I am an agricultural water user in Colorado. My family and extended families have been in AG for over a hundred years.
I have raised hay and everything else: hay, corn, beans, etc. and every vegetable and fruit you can think of. I have had multiple NRCS and CSU grants.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Don't know about hay for export. I would remind you that hay weighs 65# per bale and sells for $140 to $185 per ton. No one is going "export" very much at those numbers. BTW, hay is used primarily for the meat (beef) industry: "food for consumption."

I have never heard of a farmer trading for a junior water right.

"most of the farmers traded for junior water rights for cheaper water up front. Now, that restrictions are coming to fruition they will just start pumping more to make up for the loss from the colorado." Are you kidding?

BTW, nice boat.

You don’t know about alfalfa hay pellets?

 

[Paladin]

Lived in Phx for 30 years and I am aware of all the shucking and jiving with water rights. Remember the Planet Ranch? Scottsdale was particularly notorious.

For all intents and purposes La Paz county was and is a desert; Pinal not much better ( at least the east and southern portions.) Those water deals were done for profit. Crappy farming gave way to the lure of money and phony commitments to feed the rapid growth of Phx and its suburbs. The Arizona Canal and all of the drilling could not keep up and everyone knew it. The serious farming in AZ is along the Salt and Gila corridors. They get 10 cuttings of alfalfa in Maricopa and I suppose that some of that that is exported although I still can't see the math. I read the articles, I just did not believe them.

The fact of the matter is that none of that ******** impacts the water inflowing to Lake Powell from the Colorado River. And that should be the concern of the participants of these threads.

My comments Re: farming on this board refer to Colorado farming with adjudicated water rights. That's the water that LP lovers should be concerned with. I now live on the Uncompahgre Plateau ( Montrose) and am active in agriculture here. The view of water users here is significantly different from that of users in the lower basin states...as it should be.

The concern of all of us should be the maintenance of LP, not of whose water-ox is going to be gored.

The long term resolution will be tough, and wind up in court. The short term resolution is simple: reduce outflows and raise the lake.

Can I get a ride in your boat??

We 've got about 200 tons left. Moving the cows in 3 wks. I'll give you a call.

You don’t know about alfalfa hay pellets?

Yep, its a processed product with any kind of formulation you want. Race horse to hogs.
Available by bag, bin and container.
Lot like dog food.

Hardly alfalfa.

 

[spidarcus]

3525', alfalfa, sediment. Will alfalfa grow in sediment?

 

[Paladin]

3525', alfalfa, sediment. Will alfalfa grow in sediment?

YES.
Good idea: we form a commune, raise alfalfa in the sediment deltas and trade it to the Saudis for desalinated water.

 

[Rainbowbridge]

Isn't there a wise old saying:

'Make hay while the Lake Lowers??'

On another note, no one has discussed yet.....what will gas prices be this summer at our Lake?

$5 here in San Diego yesterday......($4.55 in Honolulu, because you actually save money by shipping 3,000 miles...gotta love the new math)

Would it be $8-10 at a DR substitute IF there was mid lake fueling?

Methinks with the level, uncertainty, and gas prices our lake's gonna be pretty empty this year.....big BIG BIG $$$ lost.

Which leads us to another point:

While we here at WW 'DO' get a portion (small) of Billy's attention.....I'd suggest the economic/financial interests get a substantially larger listen.

If I were in Page/Hanksville/Kanab/Big Water, etc. I'd be askin' the local businesses......'so how are you getting Billy's attention? What's he telling YOU??'

Could make for an interesting, empowering and enlightening conversation......



P.S. Go to $200 a ton on the 'HEY' and it'll help with your gas cost....

 

[Paladin]

Isn't there a wise old saying:

'Make hay while the Lake Lowers??'

On another note, no one has discussed yet.....what will gas prices be this summer at our Lake?

$5 here in San Diego yesterday......($4.55 in Honolulu, because you actually save money by shipping 3,000 miles...gotta love the new math)

Would it be $8-10 at a DR substitute IF there was mid lake fueling?

Methinks with the level, uncertainty, and gas prices our lake's gonna be pretty empty this year.....big BIG BIG $$$ lost.

Which leads us to another point:

While we here at WW 'DO' get a portion (small) of Billy's attention.....I'd suggest the economic/financial interests get a substantially larger listen.

If I were in Page/Hanksville/Kanab/Big Water, etc. I'd be askin' the local businesses......'so how are you getting Billy's attention?'

Could make for an interesting, empowering and enlightening conversation......



P.S. Go to $200 a ton on the 'HEY' and it'll help with your gas cost....

Bless you. Lines 6-10 of your post is where the real rubber meets the real road.

There are certain members of this site that are working on exactly what you propose!!

If and when, we achieve that audience, you guys will be the first to know.

FWIW, Bullfrog and Halls have been without revenue from 12.5.21 to ??.??.22. Zip, nada, doodah.

 

[spidarcus]

$9.99 9/10 gal. I might not even make It down to Hole in the Roof this year. Definitely not to the Escalante, won't be able to boat under Gregory NB and camp like last year. Stanton Creek is pretty close though!

 

[Squirrel]

Someone will find a spot to launch at Stanton this year. I wouldn’t tow my POS Bayliner down that road to launch. Sq

 

[nzaugg]

Currently just over $6/gal. I am worried the nightmare I had will be reality, where we have to launch the sport boats down south and take the HB out of Halls and meet halfway (or 2/3 to 1/3 of the way considering relative speeds). Not a pleasant proposition for purposes of coordinating and caravanning.

 

[John P Funk]

Currently just over $6/gal. I am worried the nightmare I had will be reality, where we have to launch the sport boats down south and take the HB out of Halls and meet halfway (or 2/3 to 1/3 of the way considering relative speeds). Not a pleasant proposition for purposes of coordinating and caravanning.

Only if you're planning a trip before May 1. Yesterdays press release says that the Bullfrog Executive Ramp extension is scheduled to complete May 1st.

 

[nzaugg]

Only if you're planning a trip before May 1. Yesterdays press release says that the Bullfrog Executive Ramp extension is scheduled to complete May 1st.

My concern is more along the lines of water level hitting 3520 as a low, we pick up less than 5-feet in rise by mid-June, just like last year, and then by mid-July, when we have our trip scheduled, the ramp is once more inoperable. The ramp at Halls closed during our trip last year, but fortunately, we knew it was coming. It would be an abysmal tragedy if we were out this year and the ramp went high and dry in Bullfrog while we were out and the only way to take out again was at Wahweap. I know Powell Bride had her truck on the wrong side of the lake last year, resulting in a 2 hour journey to get it to Bullfrog. Now imagine a 6.5 hour drive in the truck while the boat takes a 6.5 hour drive down south if you are not adequately informed about a ramp closure.

 

[John P Funk]

My concern is more along the lines of water level hitting 3520 as a low

Based on the BOR projections for even the minimum projected inflow(red line), your concerns should be alleviated. At minimum inflow the max elevation is reached at 3540 the first of June, and falls to about 3537 the first of July. Assuming the ramp is extended to 3525(minimum level before rise) there should be plenty of ramp for launching smaller vessels. Problems with launching begin again in September 2022 when the water levels again reach 3525(again this is worst case scenario).