Surf Boats and Fishermen

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Years ago, I was at the back of Dry Rock Creek with the houseboat tied up to shore near a small opening to a narrow shallow inlet that wrapped around a point.

My wife and my mom were paddling on kayaks, and when they disappeared around the point, I took up a guard position to keep boats and PWCs from blasting past the houseboat and potentially running over my loved ones. Sitting astride my own WaveRunner at the stern of the houseboat, in full view of any approaching vessels, I would fire up and block the entrance to the inlet so that they would be forced off plane, allowing me a chance to warn them that there were kayakers just around the point.

Some people saw me block the inlet, and they took me to be unfriendly, and turned away. A WaveRunner with 2 aboard kept coming, so I powered up, spun in a circle, and faced them again. They kept coming, and passed me, faster than wakeless, through water only knee deep. I charged hard, got past them, and forced them to stop. They looked confused until I explained about the kayakers, and they proceeded wakelessly around the point. Maybe 100 yards further up the inlet they met my wife and my mother and everyone shared a pleasant conversation. They waved at me cheerfully on their way out. Cool!

After that near miss, I attached a red flag to an aluminum boat hook and set it in my footwell. My plan was to wave it to slow down charging idiots from a distance ...BUT...the very next guy coming in ignored my warning to slow down. I dropped the flag, beat him to the point, and picked it up again. This time, in the choke point, he was going to have to slam into me to get around the point, and I was ready to joust, like a knight on his armored horse. I got a VERY dirty look, but no words were exchanged. He left in a huff. I got back and put the boat hook on the swimstep of the houseboat, and I had just tied my WaveRunner to a cleat, when here come the kayaks around the point.

My wife asked me "Who was that? We heard two motors".

I'm not out to ruin anybody’s fun, but let's just say that I'm not going to stand by and let some idiot endanger others by ripping around blind corners. If I knew there was nobody back in that inlet, I'd have let him go on by. If he didn't come back out in a reasonable time, I might even go in to look for the wreckage.
 
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Maybe some of those pretty girls would just be a little friendly and rub some sun screen on my back.I dont think I would have any problems with their sport. Heck I would rub their back too.in other words we would have each others back.Witch is good seamen ship anyway..😁
 
I thought long and hard about if I should jump into this post. I started once and deleted it. I am starting to type again. If any of you actually see this it means I finished it and hit "POST REPLY".

I feel like I should be at an AA meeting. Hi everyone, my name is Bigcatpt, and I am BOTH an avid fisherman AND an avid wake surfer! See... I can co-exist with myself and most the time I get along with myself!!! 🤣 I love fishing in the spring, fall, and winter. I love surfing in the summer. I really can see both sides of the fence on the discussion going on here. I could quote you my Lake Powell "resume" including all the dates and times I have been there, and at what water levels, but that just makes me laugh to think that I have to try to justify and validate my own thoughts.

Here are a few random thoughts after carefully reading all of the comments so far. Some of my thoughts may have nothing to do with comments in this post but may be relevant to boating and boating etiquette in general.

1. The area around the marina's (specifically BF and Halls since I am a north laker) should have wider area's that are no wake zones. With the lake being so skinny around Halls Marina and all the new HB buoys, they should make that whole section of main channel and the immediate surrounding area's wakeless. Like has been mentioned, it is no fun being bounced around all day if you are relaxing on your HB tied up to your buoy reading a book. EVERY boat going by bounces you....fishing boats, ferry, cruisers, houseboats, and yes.... wakeboats.

2. The Utah law says you must be wakeless if you are within 150 feet of any other boat. No matter what boat/vessel you are in. Learn how far 150 feet is. You are still responsible for your wake even if you are further than 150 feet. Use your head and be smart about it.

3. Beached/anchored up houseboats should be given a wide berth. Especially in narrow canyons. However if you are tied up to a beach in Bullfrog bay (or any other larger bay) and you are complaining about waves from boats, you are part of the problem. If you anchor up in any larger open area and then complain about too many people, too much noise, and too many waves that is all I need to know about you. Pull anchors and go find yourself a better piece of Lake Powell real estate that is a lot more secluded, quiet, and less wavy.

4. It was mentioned.... " ALL vessels, when underway off the main channel, should observe wakeless speeds within sight of other vessels." I feel this is quite a bit of overreach.... "within sight of other vessels". Some places on the lake you would never get past wakeless because I can see a boat a 1/2 mile over there. Line of sight can be pretty far sometimes. Can we agree on keeping it wakeless for "close proximity"? I mean the law is only 150 feet.

5. Going slow does not mean you are throwing less wake. I would rather have boat pass me at full speed up on plane with very little wake than slowing down to 6 mph and plowing water and throwing a huge wake.

6. It really is ok to pass someone in a wakeless zone providing the wakeless zone is plenty wide, you are not impeding flow of boat traffic, and it is safe to do so. This is all providing you are actually wakeless. Some boats can be wakeless up to 3 or 4 mph. Some can be wakeless up to 5 mph. It really depends on your hull shape. Just because your wakeless speed is 3 mph and mine is 5 mph does not mean I have to wait behind you if there is plenty of space for me to be wakeless as I pass your slower wakeless boat. Don't hate. But if it is narrow, unsafe, or involves a houseboat with limited maneuverability than just sit back and crank up the tunes (kidding a little bit) and wait your turn.

7. Music... tough one. Boats make a lot of noise just from the motor. Kids make a lot of noise from different orifices. Music if you don't like it makes a lot of noise. But a good sounding boat motor will put a smile on your face. Laughing children is contagious. Good music will make your shake your hips and dance a little. Your loud boat is annoying to someone. Your loud kids are annoying to someone. Your music at any volume is annoying to someone. Everyone should live their best life on the lake and leave the judgement on noise back at home with all the other problems you left there. However..... at 10 pm.... SHUT IT ALL DOWN. The loud generator, your kids, your music, your laughing, your yelling, your movie on the wall of the canyon. If not... then.... "conduct a night op and insert on to their beach and extract their coolers, hit them where it hurts"

8. Wind. Damn I hate wind. Wind is what drives both fisherman and surfers into the the side canyons looking for reprieve and calmer water. Surfers don't want to surf in the main channel with 1 foot wind chop and other boats waves. Neither do fisherman..... or any other boaters. Ever try vertical jigging for stripers in 15 mph wind with 1 foot chop? Not much fun. Neither is surfing in those conditions. We can both share the side canyons and enjoy the calmer weather conditions to enjoy our selected activities.... even if the surfer makes a few waves in there. It is not even close to being reasonable to say that all side canyons should be wakeless. Not even to say most should be. Indeed, some are small enough and narrow enough that they probably should be. But a blanket statement like that makes me think you haven't been in very many side canyons on this amazing lake. It is not always practical, safe, or fun to use the "open water" area's for your recreational pursuits.

9. To say that the "majority" of wake boat owners are young, immature, stupid, partying, inconsiderate, unaware, and all the other things people have called them in this thread is just silly and really judgmental. But for sure some of them are! But the majority? Really? I know lots of them and they are good family guys that love to have a good time on the lake with their family. They are not going out of the way to buzz your boat or piss you off with their music. They are out there giving their family, kids, and grandkids the time of their life! They are just enjoying the lake a little differently than you and maybe at a little higher volume. Many are in their 40s and 50s and are not just young punks. What kind of young punk can afford a 6 figure wakeboat? I have met many of grumpy inconsiderate fisherman as well but I guess I am much too tolerant to think that it is the "majority" of them. Met way too many nice fisherman in my life to believe that. The whole "majority" argument rarely pans out as reality and really just shows your intolerance of others.

10. Tubers!!!!! Boats pulling tubes create way more waves than surfers!!! Round and round and S turns and circles sending waves every freaking direction! They are the REAL problem. Kidding.... kind of. I would rather have a surf boat come by me and deal with 3 large waves from one direction than 3 gazillion waves from the round and round of the boat pulling the tube with the kids giggling uncontrollably on it. Did that sound judgmental? Tubers are important too at least until they are old enough to surf and then pop that damn thing! Kidding... a little. LOL Don't even get me started on lake lice... er I mean jetskis! They are just out there having a good time as well and are really fun for about 5 minutes.

11. In regards to the video posted of the wake surfer having the time of his life buzzing the canyon walls with NOBODY ELSE around. Who cares! He is not bothering anyone! Is he being unsafe? Maybe. Is it not very smart? Maybe. Who cares. Quit being a Karen and let them enjoy. If he gets hurt....its his problem. If they hit their prop on a rock...their problem. Live your best life and let others live theirs. I am sure there are lots of people that would condemn this surfer and video but then will turn around jump off the cliff/rocks at Lake Powell with their family and friends. Oh ya... that is illegal isn't it? But it is "ok because we are being safe about it". Don't judge others because they sin (or recreate) differently than you.

12. What happens if I am surfing in a smaller canyon (because the main channel is windy and blown out) and there are no other boats (including houseboats other than mine) in the canyon. While I am surfing a houseboat comes in and pulls up to a beach across from my houseboat and starts tying up. Do I now have to quit surfing in the little canyon because that houseboat showed up? Should I feel disrespected and angry because he is so rude to come park his houseboat in my surfing cove? He could obviously see we were surfing there first. What if I am surfing at the mouth of a decent size canyon and a fishing boat want to fish in the canyon and they would have to cross my big waves to get past me. They give me the one finger wave to let me know they are not happy about my wave size. But I was there first. Should I feel obligated to stop surfing so that the fishing boat can get by me without a wave? Can't they just pick a different canyon? It is a big lake and I was there first! I throw these out there to show it GOES BOTH WAYS! Live your best life out there and let others as well. Work it out. If you are not happy with where you are or what is happening around you....move. Go find your little piece of happiness! Being angry with other people because they are not doing it the same way as you is just dumb.

13. Boats pulling kids. If you see a boat pulling kids or youngsters on any kind of device (surfboard, kneeboard, tube, skis, etc) BACK THE HECK OFF! Slow down and give them the right of way. Give them the smooth water. If they are newbies they are probably scared to death to fall and get run over by a fisherman (kidding). Give them the best water for a few minutes even if it is in the back of a canyon. Let the kids learn and gain confidence in the best possible conditions.

14. Jetskis.... I just couldn't let it go. If you turn your kids or grandkids loose on your jetski's please tell them to not follow other boats and jump their wake while they are towing anyone on any device! Back off....go away....and find some other waves to jump where you are not endangering someone being towed that could fall at any moment.

Oh wow that got long winded! Don't hate me. I have much love for you all... surfers, boarders, fisherman, speedboaters, etc. Not much for the tubers or jetski's though... kidding....kind of. Sure hope the weather warms up so we can spend more time at the lake instead of at our computers. Live your best life and let others live theirs. Lake Powell is too amazing and beautiful to be disgruntled with some other boater who is also enjoying the lake. Wave and smile and move on.

"That's all I have to say about that." Forrest Gump
 
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"But the majority? Really?"
Yes really. Things may different on up north but it's become the majority on south end.
 
Zach is scrambling to put all the worms back in the can. LOL.

Reading these I just hope I wasn’t one of the idiots in these story’s. Haha

Someone said loud music. Uh oh. We have been known to play loud music once. If anyone ever told me to keep it down we do. But if nobody is around we let it rip and have a party.

Mike
 
Bigcatpt said:
I thought long and hard about if I should jump into this post. I started once and deleted it. I am starting to type again. If any of you actually see this it means I finished it and hit "POST REPLY".

I feel like I should be at an AA meeting. Hi everyone, my name is Bigcatpt, and I am BOTH an avid fisherman AND an avid wake surfer! See... I can co-exist with myself and most the time I get along with myself!!! 🤣 I love fishing in the spring, fall, and winter. I love surfing in the summer. I really can see both sides of the fence on the discussion going on here. I could quote you my Lake Powell "resume" including all the dates and times I have been there, and at what water levels, but that just makes me laugh to think that I have to try to justify and validate my own thoughts.

Here are a few random thoughts after carefully reading all of the comments so far. Some of my thoughts may have nothing to do with comments in this post but may be relevant to boating and boating etiquette in general.

1. The area around the marina's (specifically BF and Halls since I am a north laker) should have wider area's that are no wake zones. With the lake being so skinny around Halls Marina and all the new HB buoys, they should make that whole section of main channel and the immediate surrounding area's wakeless. Like has been mentioned, it is no fun being bounced around all day if you are relaxing on your HB tied up to your buoy reading a book. EVERY boat going by bounces you....fishing boats, ferry, cruisers, houseboats, and yes.... wakeboats.

2. The Utah law says you must be wakeless if you are within 150 feet of any other boat. No matter what boat/vessel you are in. Learn how far 150 feet is. You are still responsible for your wake even if you are further than 150 feet. Use your head and be smart about it.

3. Beached/anchored up houseboats should be given a wide berth. Especially in narrow canyons. However if you are tied up to a beach in Bullfrog bay (or any other larger bay) and you are complaining about waves from boats, you are part of the problem. If you anchor up in any larger open area and then complain about too many people, too much noise, and too many waves that is all I need to know about you. Pull anchors and go find yourself a better piece of Lake Powell real estate that is a lot more secluded, quiet, and less wavy.

4. It was mentioned.... " ALL vessels, when underway off the main channel, should observe wakeless speeds within sight of other vessels." I feel this is quite a bit of overreach.... "within sight of other vessels". Some places on the lake you would never get past wakeless because I can see a boat a 1/2 mile over there. Line of sight can be pretty far sometimes. Can we agree on keeping it wakeless for "close proximity"? I mean the law is only 150 feet.

5. Going slow does not mean you are throwing less wake. I would rather have boat pass me at full speed up on plane with very little wake than slowing down to 6 mph and plowing water and throwing a huge wake.

6. It really is ok to pass someone in a wakeless zone providing the wakeless zone is plenty wide, you are not impeding flow of boat traffic, and it is safe to do so. This is all providing you are actually wakeless. Some boats can be wakeless up to 3 or 4 mph. Some can be wakeless up to 5 mph. It really depends on your hull shape. Just because your wakeless speed is 3 mph and mine is 5 mph does not mean I have to wait behind you if there is plenty of space for me to be wakeless as I pass your slower wakeless boat. Don't hate. But if it is narrow, unsafe, or involves a houseboat with limited maneuverability than just sit back and crank up the tunes (kidding a little bit) and wait your turn.

7. Music... tough one. Boats make a lot of noise just from the motor. Kids make a lot of noise from different orifices. Music if you don't like it makes a lot of noise. But a good sounding boat motor will put a smile on your face. Laughing children is contagious. Good music will make your shake your hips and dance a little. Your loud boat is annoying to someone. Your loud kids are annoying to someone. Your music at any volume is annoying to someone. Everyone should live their best life on the lake and leave the judgement on noise back at home with all the other problems you left there. However..... at 10 pm.... SHUT IT ALL DOWN. The loud generator, your kids, your music, your laughing, your yelling, your movie on the wall of the canyon. If not... then.... "conduct a night op and insert on to their beach and extract their coolers, hit them where it hurts"

8. Wind. Damn I hate wind. Wind is what drives both fisherman and surfers into the the side canyons looking for reprieve and calmer water. Surfers don't want to surf in the main channel with 1 foot wind chop and other boats waves. Neither do fisherman..... or any other boaters. Ever try vertical jigging for strippers in 15 mph wind with 1 foot chop? Not much fun. Neither is surfing in those conditions. We can both share the side canyons and enjoy the calmer weather conditions to enjoy our selected activities.... even if the surfer makes a few waves in there. It is not even close to being reasonable to say that all side canyons should be wakeless. Not even to say most should be. Indeed, some are small enough and narrow enough that they probably should be. But a blanket statement like that makes me think you haven't been in very many side canyons on this amazing lake. It is not always practical, safe, or fun to use the "open water" area's for your recreational pursuits.

9. To say that the "majority" of wake boat owners are young, immature, stupid, partying, inconsiderate, unaware, and all the other things people have called them in this thread is just silly and really judgmental. But for sure some of them are! But the majority? Really? I know lots of them and they are good family guys that love to have a good time on the lake with their family. They are not going out of the way to buzz your boat or piss you off with their music. They are out there giving their family, kids, and grandkids the time of their life! They are just enjoying the lake a little differently than you and maybe at a little higher volume. Many are in their 40s and 50s and are not just young punks. What kind of young punk can afford a 6 figure wakeboat? I have met many of grumpy inconsiderate fisherman as well but I guess I am much too tolerant to think that it is the "majority" of them. Met way too many nice fisherman in my life to believe that. The whole "majority" argument rarely pans out as reality and really just shows your intolerance of others.

10. Tubers!!!!! Boats pulling tubes create way more waves than surfers!!! Round and round and S turns and circles sending waves every freaking direction! They are the REAL problem. Kidding.... kind of. I would rather have a surf boat come by me and deal with 3 large waves from one direction than 3 gazillion waves from the round and round of the boat pulling the tube with the kids giggling uncontrollably on it. Did that sound judgmental? Tubers are important too at least until they are old enough to surf and then pop that damn thing! Kidding... a little. LOL Don't even get me started on lake lice... er I mean jetskis! They are just out there having a good time as well and are really fun for about 5 minutes.

11. In regards to the video posted of the wake surfer having the time of his life buzzing the canyon walls with NOBODY ELSE around. Who cares! He is not bothering anyone! Is he being unsafe? Maybe. Is it not very smart? Maybe. Who cares. Quit being a Karen and let them enjoy. If he gets hurt....its his problem. If they hit their prop on a rock...their problem. Live your best life and let others live theirs. I am sure there are lots of people that would condemn this surfer and video but then will turn around jump off the cliff/rocks at Lake Powell with their family and friends. Oh ya... that is illegal isn't it? But it is "ok because we are being safe about it". Don't judge others because they sin (or recreate) differently than you.

12. What happens if I am surfing in a smaller canyon (because the main channel is windy and blown out) and there are no other boats (including houseboats other than mine) in the canyon. While I am surfing a houseboat comes in and pulls up to a beach across from my houseboat and starts tying up. Do I now have to quit surfing in the little canyon because that houseboat showed up? Should I feel disrespected and angry because he is so rude to come park his houseboat in my surfing cove? He could obviously see we were surfing there first. What if I am surfing at the mouth of a decent size canyon and a fishing boat want to fish in the canyon and they would have to cross my big waves to get past me. They give me the one finger wave to let me know they are not happy about my wave size. But I was there first. Should I feel obligated to stop surfing so that the fishing boat can get by me without a wave? Can't they just pick a different canyon? It is a big lake and I was there first! I throw these out there to show it GOES BOTH WAYS! Live your best life out there and let others as well. Work it out. If you are not happy with where you are or what is happening around you....move. Go find your little piece of happiness! Being angry with other people because they are not doing it the same way as you is just dumb.

13. Boats pulling kids. If you see a boat pulling kids or youngsters on any kind of device (surfboard, kneeboard, tube, skis, etc) BACK THE HECK OFF! Slow down and give them the right of way. Give them the smooth water. If they are newbies they are probably scared to death to fall and get run over by a fisherman (kidding). Give them the best water for a few minutes even if it is in the back of a canyon. Let the kids learn and gain confidence in the best possible conditions.

14. Jetskis.... I just couldn't let it go. If you turn your kids or grandkids loose on your jetski's please tell them to not follow other boats and jump their wake while they are towing anyone on any device! Back off....go away....and find some other waves to jump where you are not endangering someone being towed that could fall at any moment.

Oh wow that got long winded! Don't hate me. I have much love for you all... surfers, boarders, fisherman, speedboaters, etc. Not much for the tubers or jetski's though... kidding....kind of. Sure hope the weather warms up so we can spend more time at the lake instead of at our computers. Live your best life and let others live theirs. Lake Powell is too amazing and beautiful to be disgruntled with some other boater who is also enjoying the lake. Wave and smile and move on.

"That's all I have to say about that." Forrest Gump
Click to expand...
BigCat, I don’t know why you were hesitant to post. I really enjoyed reading your experiences and opinions. Cheers 🍻
 
BigCat, lots of great statements. Regarding tubers, I saw a video once that was intended to be an introduction to boating that said you should not buy tubes for your kids starting out because then your kids will only want to tube and miss out on the really good parts of boating. I think we can all unite behind keeping tubers out of the lake EXCEPT when it is windy and choppy in the channel.
 
Zach thank you for your efforts! I agree with your comment in stating, - "I believe a lot of people are just uneducated in basic boating safety and etiquette." My family and I have boated in most of the west coast states and the first thing I do before going somewhere new is do a quick check of the boating rules for the state we are going. By natural I have been a rule follower and when someone tries to BS about how things are suppose to be done you are grounded by something authoritative. In the UT boating rules there is a short and sweet paragraph that would benefit all lake users: (With the last sentence being my favorite)

1679683729771.png
https://site.utah.gov/stateparks/wp...13/2015/09/DNR-Boating-Highlights-15-Artx.pdf

Be courteous and give others plenty of room. Most of us at the lake are there for some form of recreation and when I go out to any lake I want to be as far away from anyone as possible. I grew up in a small town in Colorado with less that 1000 people and now live in a large city. I think that is why I love the lake so much, is it is my get away from work, city, crowds, etc.. Lake Powell is huge with more than enough room to give each other some space. I own a surf boat, but love to fish. Each year after my families week on Powell my kids top two favorite things without fail are and fish and surf. To me the quickest way to change is trying to keeping it simple; be courteous and give others plenty of room.

Also, thanks for the bucked up, at the UT boat show!
 
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Bigcatpt said:
I thought long and hard about if I should jump into this post. I started once and deleted it. I am starting to type again. If any of you actually see this it means I finished it and hit "POST REPLY".

I feel like I should be at an AA meeting. Hi everyone, my name is Bigcatpt, and I am BOTH an avid fisherman AND an avid wake surfer! See... I can co-exist with myself and most the time I get along with myself!!! 🤣 I love fishing in the spring, fall, and winter. I love surfing in the summer. I really can see both sides of the fence on the discussion going on here. I could quote you my Lake Powell "resume" including all the dates and times I have been there, and at what water levels, but that just makes me laugh to think that I have to try to justify and validate my own thoughts.

Here are a few random thoughts after carefully reading all of the comments so far. Some of my thoughts may have nothing to do with comments in this post but may be relevant to boating and boating etiquette in general.

1. The area around the marina's (specifically BF and Halls since I am a north laker) should have wider area's that are no wake zones. With the lake being so skinny around Halls Marina and all the new HB buoys, they should make that whole section of main channel and the immediate surrounding area's wakeless. Like has been mentioned, it is no fun being bounced around all day if you are relaxing on your HB tied up to your buoy reading a book. EVERY boat going by bounces you....fishing boats, ferry, cruisers, houseboats, and yes.... wakeboats.

2. The Utah law says you must be wakeless if you are within 150 feet of any other boat. No matter what boat/vessel you are in. Learn how far 150 feet is. You are still responsible for your wake even if you are further than 150 feet. Use your head and be smart about it.

3. Beached/anchored up houseboats should be given a wide berth. Especially in narrow canyons. However if you are tied up to a beach in Bullfrog bay (or any other larger bay) and you are complaining about waves from boats, you are part of the problem. If you anchor up in any larger open area and then complain about too many people, too much noise, and too many waves that is all I need to know about you. Pull anchors and go find yourself a better piece of Lake Powell real estate that is a lot more secluded, quiet, and less wavy.

4. It was mentioned.... " ALL vessels, when underway off the main channel, should observe wakeless speeds within sight of other vessels." I feel this is quite a bit of overreach.... "within sight of other vessels". Some places on the lake you would never get past wakeless because I can see a boat a 1/2 mile over there. Line of sight can be pretty far sometimes. Can we agree on keeping it wakeless for "close proximity"? I mean the law is only 150 feet.

5. Going slow does not mean you are throwing less wake. I would rather have boat pass me at full speed up on plane with very little wake than slowing down to 6 mph and plowing water and throwing a huge wake.

6. It really is ok to pass someone in a wakeless zone providing the wakeless zone is plenty wide, you are not impeding flow of boat traffic, and it is safe to do so. This is all providing you are actually wakeless. Some boats can be wakeless up to 3 or 4 mph. Some can be wakeless up to 5 mph. It really depends on your hull shape. Just because your wakeless speed is 3 mph and mine is 5 mph does not mean I have to wait behind you if there is plenty of space for me to be wakeless as I pass your slower wakeless boat. Don't hate. But if it is narrow, unsafe, or involves a houseboat with limited maneuverability than just sit back and crank up the tunes (kidding a little bit) and wait your turn.

7. Music... tough one. Boats make a lot of noise just from the motor. Kids make a lot of noise from different orifices. Music if you don't like it makes a lot of noise. But a good sounding boat motor will put a smile on your face. Laughing children is contagious. Good music will make your shake your hips and dance a little. Your loud boat is annoying to someone. Your loud kids are annoying to someone. Your music at any volume is annoying to someone. Everyone should live their best life on the lake and leave the judgement on noise back at home with all the other problems you left there. However..... at 10 pm.... SHUT IT ALL DOWN. The loud generator, your kids, your music, your laughing, your yelling, your movie on the wall of the canyon. If not... then.... "conduct a night op and insert on to their beach and extract their coolers, hit them where it hurts"

8. Wind. Damn I hate wind. Wind is what drives both fisherman and surfers into the the side canyons looking for reprieve and calmer water. Surfers don't want to surf in the main channel with 1 foot wind chop and other boats waves. Neither do fisherman..... or any other boaters. Ever try vertical jigging for strippers in 15 mph wind with 1 foot chop? Not much fun. Neither is surfing in those conditions. We can both share the side canyons and enjoy the calmer weather conditions to enjoy our selected activities.... even if the surfer makes a few waves in there. It is not even close to being reasonable to say that all side canyons should be wakeless. Not even to say most should be. Indeed, some are small enough and narrow enough that they probably should be. But a blanket statement like that makes me think you haven't been in very many side canyons on this amazing lake. It is not always practical, safe, or fun to use the "open water" area's for your recreational pursuits.

9. To say that the "majority" of wake boat owners are young, immature, stupid, partying, inconsiderate, unaware, and all the other things people have called them in this thread is just silly and really judgmental. But for sure some of them are! But the majority? Really? I know lots of them and they are good family guys that love to have a good time on the lake with their family. They are not going out of the way to buzz your boat or piss you off with their music. They are out there giving their family, kids, and grandkids the time of their life! They are just enjoying the lake a little differently than you and maybe at a little higher volume. Many are in their 40s and 50s and are not just young punks. What kind of young punk can afford a 6 figure wakeboat? I have met many of grumpy inconsiderate fisherman as well but I guess I am much too tolerant to think that it is the "majority" of them. Met way too many nice fisherman in my life to believe that. The whole "majority" argument rarely pans out as reality and really just shows your intolerance of others.

10. Tubers!!!!! Boats pulling tubes create way more waves than surfers!!! Round and round and S turns and circles sending waves every freaking direction! They are the REAL problem. Kidding.... kind of. I would rather have a surf boat come by me and deal with 3 large waves from one direction than 3 gazillion waves from the round and round of the boat pulling the tube with the kids giggling uncontrollably on it. Did that sound judgmental? Tubers are important too at least until they are old enough to surf and then pop that damn thing! Kidding... a little. LOL Don't even get me started on lake lice... er I mean jetskis! They are just out there having a good time as well and are really fun for about 5 minutes.

11. In regards to the video posted of the wake surfer having the time of his life buzzing the canyon walls with NOBODY ELSE around. Who cares! He is not bothering anyone! Is he being unsafe? Maybe. Is it not very smart? Maybe. Who cares. Quit being a Karen and let them enjoy. If he gets hurt....its his problem. If they hit their prop on a rock...their problem. Live your best life and let others live theirs. I am sure there are lots of people that would condemn this surfer and video but then will turn around jump off the cliff/rocks at Lake Powell with their family and friends. Oh ya... that is illegal isn't it? But it is "ok because we are being safe about it". Don't judge others because they sin (or recreate) differently than you.

12. What happens if I am surfing in a smaller canyon (because the main channel is windy and blown out) and there are no other boats (including houseboats other than mine) in the canyon. While I am surfing a houseboat comes in and pulls up to a beach across from my houseboat and starts tying up. Do I now have to quit surfing in the little canyon because that houseboat showed up? Should I feel disrespected and angry because he is so rude to come park his houseboat in my surfing cove? He could obviously see we were surfing there first. What if I am surfing at the mouth of a decent size canyon and a fishing boat want to fish in the canyon and they would have to cross my big waves to get past me. They give me the one finger wave to let me know they are not happy about my wave size. But I was there first. Should I feel obligated to stop surfing so that the fishing boat can get by me without a wave? Can't they just pick a different canyon? It is a big lake and I was there first! I throw these out there to show it GOES BOTH WAYS! Live your best life out there and let others as well. Work it out. If you are not happy with where you are or what is happening around you....move. Go find your little piece of happiness! Being angry with other people because they are not doing it the same way as you is just dumb.

13. Boats pulling kids. If you see a boat pulling kids or youngsters on any kind of device (surfboard, kneeboard, tube, skis, etc) BACK THE HECK OFF! Slow down and give them the right of way. Give them the smooth water. If they are newbies they are probably scared to death to fall and get run over by a fisherman (kidding). Give them the best water for a few minutes even if it is in the back of a canyon. Let the kids learn and gain confidence in the best possible conditions.

14. Jetskis.... I just couldn't let it go. If you turn your kids or grandkids loose on your jetski's please tell them to not follow other boats and jump their wake while they are towing anyone on any device! Back off....go away....and find some other waves to jump where you are not endangering someone being towed that could fall at any moment.

Oh wow that got long winded! Don't hate me. I have much love for you all... surfers, boarders, fisherman, speedboaters, etc. Not much for the tubers or jetski's though... kidding....kind of. Sure hope the weather warms up so we can spend more time at the lake instead of at our computers. Live your best life and let others live theirs. Lake Powell is too amazing and beautiful to be disgruntled with some other boater who is also enjoying the lake. Wave and smile and move on.

"That's all I have to say about that." Forrest Gump
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Awesome post. Pretty much agree with everything. One thing remains... how do you feel about fireworks! :-) And I suppose some should be careful here to not self incriminate. As for me and my houseboat we would NEVER do fireworks at Powell...
 
Zach,
There is the issue of boat owners coming to the lake with the mind set that they are going to get their experience they desire with no consideration of others.
Aside from that, I can give you some education on what those boat owners are looking for in an experience. Maybe understanding it from that point of view can help provide education to them so they can get the same experience without causing problems for others. I feel it is possible

I have been a wakeboarding and wakesurfing for around 25 years. I now mostly slalom ski because my body can't take it anymore. But, I do have a lot of experience towing wakesurfers, skiers, wakeboarders in all sorts of conditions.
The culture has evolved throughout those years, and it is going to keep evolving. It seems that more inexperienced wakesurfers/wakeboarders are entering the sport at a rapid pace due to the increasing popularity and technology of these newer boats. i.e. automatic ballast tanks, speed control, remote control switches on the riders wrist, wake gates, etc. New boat owners not only have to learn rules on the water but also have have to learn how to operate all these bells and whistles. I have literally watched drivers almost run into a wall while trying to adjust the profile of the wake, for example. If we do not educate, it is going to just get worse.

Wake surfing issues
  • Due to increased ballast in the rear of the boat, the nose of the boat doesn't plane out as well, or takes a really long time to plane. This restricts the drivers view. I'm sure you can imagine all the issues with not being able to see in front of you.
  • Wakesurfing is more of social sport since the person doing the wakesurfing is so close to the boat. This promotes additional social activities; such as giving high fives, throwing skittles into the persons mouth while surfing, having a dog surf with you, screaming out what song you want played... the crazy list goes on. This can be very distracting to the driver as the driver may even participate in the activity.
  • The Wakesurfing boat speed (11 MPH average) can give the driver a misrepresented sense of safety. They could think they have enough time to react to problems. While this may be true to a degree, the boat's maneuverability has been compromised due to all the extra ballast in the tank. Have you tried to turn a boat with 2000 lbs of water ballast in it? Its not as easy, especially if you are not aware that it is easier to turn one way more than another depending on which side the ballast is on, if it is favored to one side. It is easier to turn a wakeboat with full ballast when at wakeless speed. You can spot a newbie when they are turning around for their retrieve their wakesurfer at full throttle. The slower speed also can make the driver feel like his boat isn't hurting anyone if he gets closer to them.
  • Unlike most water sports, Wakesurfing actually doesn't need perfect smooth water. Since the activity is so close to the boat the surfer doesn't feel the waves from wind or other boats as much. This might be a good argument that wakesurfers don't have to fight for good water as much. I know when there is good glass water, the last thing we are going for is the wakesurf board. We definitely reserve the good water for wakeboarding or slalom skiing. Although, there are boaters out there that wakesurf only as their primary activity.
  • It used to be that you could only load up one side of the boat to get a bigger wake on one side. Therefor you have to make ballast adjustments when switching to other riders that ride with a different foot forward. Therefore, the boat was really putting a large wake only on one side. If you plan it right, you can protect boats from coming in contact with your wake if you pass them on the smaller wake side. HOWEVER, newer boats are now figuring out how to make both sides have big wakes at the same time so the surfer can go from one side to the other. So now we have the problem of the wake boat throwing two larger wakes, one out each side. This makes it harder to send your wake to an area where it won't affect anyone. Of course, there are those who don't care.
  • Because the boat driver is typically the one that has control over the ballast, boat speed, ... all the variables that make the "perfect wake", the boat driver can easily get distracted.

Wakesurfers are looking for a huge wake. But at the same time that activity is very driven by it being a social activity. Music, games, starting form the deck instead of deep starting to look cool. Etc. With that attracts people that are less concerned about how their actions affect others. I am hoping that the majority of those people/drivers do care but are simply operating our of ignorance.

Well I gotta get back to work. Hope this helps.
 
jacobwall said:
Awesome post. Pretty much agree with everything. One thing remains... how do you feel about fireworks! :) And I suppose some should be careful here to not self incriminate. As for me and my houseboat we would NEVER do fireworks at Powell...
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I think fireworks are like cliff jumpers. Both of them are considered to be illegal activities. But If you want to do it then go for it. I don't choose to do fireworks. But I don't judge those that do. They really do look and sound amazing with the high red walls as a backdrop and the reflections off the water. I enjoy the show. I wish people that do choose to do fireworks would be finished with them by 11 pm and then go way out of their way to make sure they have cleaned up really good after themselves.
 
Bigcatpt said:
I think fireworks are like cliff jumpers. Both of them are considered to be illegal activities. But If you want to do it then go for it. I don't choose to do fireworks. But I don't judge those that do. They really do look and sound amazing with the high red walls as a backdrop and the reflections off the water. I enjoy the show. I wish people that do choose to do fireworks would be finished with them by 11 pm and then go way out of their way to make sure they have cleaned up really good after themselves.
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I also think it is appropriate to ask/warn an adjacent houseboat about your fireworks. We had a trip where we were warned by the boat 100 yards down shore and it was really nice to be prepared to sit and watch the fireworks. Another trip we had a boat light of a mega brick of firecrackers at 11:30. Our whole boat was abruptly woken up from deep sleep. A couple of us said they thought the canyon wall was sloughing off. The kids had a hard time getting back down. Not fun!
 
Bigcatpt said:
I thought long and hard about if I should jump into this post. I started once and deleted it. I am starting to type again. If any of you actually see this it means I finished it and hit "POST REPLY".

I feel like I should be at an AA meeting. Hi everyone, my name is Bigcatpt, and I am BOTH an avid fisherman AND an avid wake surfer! See... I can co-exist with myself and most the time I get along with myself!!! 🤣 I love fishing in the spring, fall, and winter. I love surfing in the summer. I really can see both sides of the fence on the discussion going on here. I could quote you my Lake Powell "resume" including all the dates and times I have been there, and at what water levels, but that just makes me laugh to think that I have to try to justify and validate my own thoughts.

Here are a few random thoughts after carefully reading all of the comments so far. Some of my thoughts may have nothing to do with comments in this post but may be relevant to boating and boating etiquette in general.

1. The area around the marina's (specifically BF and Halls since I am a north laker) should have wider area's that are no wake zones. With the lake being so skinny around Halls Marina and all the new HB buoys, they should make that whole section of main channel and the immediate surrounding area's wakeless. Like has been mentioned, it is no fun being bounced around all day if you are relaxing on your HB tied up to your buoy reading a book. EVERY boat going by bounces you....fishing boats, ferry, cruisers, houseboats, and yes.... wakeboats.

2. The Utah law says you must be wakeless if you are within 150 feet of any other boat. No matter what boat/vessel you are in. Learn how far 150 feet is. You are still responsible for your wake even if you are further than 150 feet. Use your head and be smart about it.

3. Beached/anchored up houseboats should be given a wide berth. Especially in narrow canyons. However if you are tied up to a beach in Bullfrog bay (or any other larger bay) and you are complaining about waves from boats, you are part of the problem. If you anchor up in any larger open area and then complain about too many people, too much noise, and too many waves that is all I need to know about you. Pull anchors and go find yourself a better piece of Lake Powell real estate that is a lot more secluded, quiet, and less wavy.

4. It was mentioned.... " ALL vessels, when underway off the main channel, should observe wakeless speeds within sight of other vessels." I feel this is quite a bit of overreach.... "within sight of other vessels". Some places on the lake you would never get past wakeless because I can see a boat a 1/2 mile over there. Line of sight can be pretty far sometimes. Can we agree on keeping it wakeless for "close proximity"? I mean the law is only 150 feet.

5. Going slow does not mean you are throwing less wake. I would rather have boat pass me at full speed up on plane with very little wake than slowing down to 6 mph and plowing water and throwing a huge wake.

6. It really is ok to pass someone in a wakeless zone providing the wakeless zone is plenty wide, you are not impeding flow of boat traffic, and it is safe to do so. This is all providing you are actually wakeless. Some boats can be wakeless up to 3 or 4 mph. Some can be wakeless up to 5 mph. It really depends on your hull shape. Just because your wakeless speed is 3 mph and mine is 5 mph does not mean I have to wait behind you if there is plenty of space for me to be wakeless as I pass your slower wakeless boat. Don't hate. But if it is narrow, unsafe, or involves a houseboat with limited maneuverability than just sit back and crank up the tunes (kidding a little bit) and wait your turn.

7. Music... tough one. Boats make a lot of noise just from the motor. Kids make a lot of noise from different orifices. Music if you don't like it makes a lot of noise. But a good sounding boat motor will put a smile on your face. Laughing children is contagious. Good music will make your shake your hips and dance a little. Your loud boat is annoying to someone. Your loud kids are annoying to someone. Your music at any volume is annoying to someone. Everyone should live their best life on the lake and leave the judgement on noise back at home with all the other problems you left there. However..... at 10 pm.... SHUT IT ALL DOWN. The loud generator, your kids, your music, your laughing, your yelling, your movie on the wall of the canyon. If not... then.... "conduct a night op and insert on to their beach and extract their coolers, hit them where it hurts"

8. Wind. Damn I hate wind. Wind is what drives both fisherman and surfers into the the side canyons looking for reprieve and calmer water. Surfers don't want to surf in the main channel with 1 foot wind chop and other boats waves. Neither do fisherman..... or any other boaters. Ever try vertical jigging for strippers in 15 mph wind with 1 foot chop? Not much fun. Neither is surfing in those conditions. We can both share the side canyons and enjoy the calmer weather conditions to enjoy our selected activities.... even if the surfer makes a few waves in there. It is not even close to being reasonable to say that all side canyons should be wakeless. Not even to say most should be. Indeed, some are small enough and narrow enough that they probably should be. But a blanket statement like that makes me think you haven't been in very many side canyons on this amazing lake. It is not always practical, safe, or fun to use the "open water" area's for your recreational pursuits.

9. To say that the "majority" of wake boat owners are young, immature, stupid, partying, inconsiderate, unaware, and all the other things people have called them in this thread is just silly and really judgmental. But for sure some of them are! But the majority? Really? I know lots of them and they are good family guys that love to have a good time on the lake with their family. They are not going out of the way to buzz your boat or piss you off with their music. They are out there giving their family, kids, and grandkids the time of their life! They are just enjoying the lake a little differently than you and maybe at a little higher volume. Many are in their 40s and 50s and are not just young punks. What kind of young punk can afford a 6 figure wakeboat? I have met many of grumpy inconsiderate fisherman as well but I guess I am much too tolerant to think that it is the "majority" of them. Met way too many nice fisherman in my life to believe that. The whole "majority" argument rarely pans out as reality and really just shows your intolerance of others.

10. Tubers!!!!! Boats pulling tubes create way more waves than surfers!!! Round and round and S turns and circles sending waves every freaking direction! They are the REAL problem. Kidding.... kind of. I would rather have a surf boat come by me and deal with 3 large waves from one direction than 3 gazillion waves from the round and round of the boat pulling the tube with the kids giggling uncontrollably on it. Did that sound judgmental? Tubers are important too at least until they are old enough to surf and then pop that damn thing! Kidding... a little. LOL Don't even get me started on lake lice... er I mean jetskis! They are just out there having a good time as well and are really fun for about 5 minutes.

11. In regards to the video posted of the wake surfer having the time of his life buzzing the canyon walls with NOBODY ELSE around. Who cares! He is not bothering anyone! Is he being unsafe? Maybe. Is it not very smart? Maybe. Who cares. Quit being a Karen and let them enjoy. If he gets hurt....its his problem. If they hit their prop on a rock...their problem. Live your best life and let others live theirs. I am sure there are lots of people that would condemn this surfer and video but then will turn around jump off the cliff/rocks at Lake Powell with their family and friends. Oh ya... that is illegal isn't it? But it is "ok because we are being safe about it". Don't judge others because they sin (or recreate) differently than you.

12. What happens if I am surfing in a smaller canyon (because the main channel is windy and blown out) and there are no other boats (including houseboats other than mine) in the canyon. While I am surfing a houseboat comes in and pulls up to a beach across from my houseboat and starts tying up. Do I now have to quit surfing in the little canyon because that houseboat showed up? Should I feel disrespected and angry because he is so rude to come park his houseboat in my surfing cove? He could obviously see we were surfing there first. What if I am surfing at the mouth of a decent size canyon and a fishing boat want to fish in the canyon and they would have to cross my big waves to get past me. They give me the one finger wave to let me know they are not happy about my wave size. But I was there first. Should I feel obligated to stop surfing so that the fishing boat can get by me without a wave? Can't they just pick a different canyon? It is a big lake and I was there first! I throw these out there to show it GOES BOTH WAYS! Live your best life out there and let others as well. Work it out. If you are not happy with where you are or what is happening around you....move. Go find your little piece of happiness! Being angry with other people because they are not doing it the same way as you is just dumb.

13. Boats pulling kids. If you see a boat pulling kids or youngsters on any kind of device (surfboard, kneeboard, tube, skis, etc) BACK THE HECK OFF! Slow down and give them the right of way. Give them the smooth water. If they are newbies they are probably scared to death to fall and get run over by a fisherman (kidding). Give them the best water for a few minutes even if it is in the back of a canyon. Let the kids learn and gain confidence in the best possible conditions.

14. Jetskis.... I just couldn't let it go. If you turn your kids or grandkids loose on your jetski's please tell them to not follow other boats and jump their wake while they are towing anyone on any device! Back off....go away....and find some other waves to jump where you are not endangering someone being towed that could fall at any moment.

Oh wow that got long winded! Don't hate me. I have much love for you all... surfers, boarders, fisherman, speedboaters, etc. Not much for the tubers or jetski's though... kidding....kind of. Sure hope the weather warms up so we can spend more time at the lake instead of at our computers. Live your best life and let others live theirs. Lake Powell is too amazing and beautiful to be disgruntled with some other boater who is also enjoying the lake. Wave and smile and move on.

"That's all I have to say about that." Forrest Gump
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^^^^ THIS ^^^^ Well said! Everything on point. Tubing is super lame unless every other watersport has been tried and exhausted. I'd much rather spend an hour trying to teach a kid to kneeboard or wakeboard or ski or surf or fish than pull them on a tube. And I'm a pretty chill guy, but if someone's on a jet ski or boat and following my boat as I'm pulling a youngster, I WILL lose it!

I'm glad you didn't delete this one and hit reply.
 
I got a hole burned into my sundeck upholstry from kids shooting off fireworks on the beach we were on. My buddy came thisclose to getting in a fight with one of the moms. The other mom backed off when she saw the burn hole. Leave the fireworks to the professionals.
 
Squirrel said:
There is no way I would ever go to another camp at night to complain about loud music. Too much crazy people in this world. Maybe in the morning when they are sober, and that’s a big maybe. Sq
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We had a industry group with 5 houseboats and 13 wake boats in Oak Bay once. LOUD until 1:30am, for the two nights we were there. We discussed egging down the back decks of the boats in the morning when they were all asleep, but thought better of it.

Someone mentioned jet skis jumping wakes. When I was a kid my dad was single skiing and I was flagging when a jet ski came between us. My dad had the presence to toss the handle straight up, and the guy didn’t get closelined. Not quite the maddest I’ve ever seen him.
 
I am an old school slalom skier. I am very picky and only go on smooth water. I grew up engaging in every kind of watersport fun and danger that a teenager could think of, but this was way before anyone even thought of a wake boat. So I can understand that people want to have fun. My question to the wakeboard boats is when these boats are NOT actively wakeboarding do they continue underway with all of the ballast onboard? I am at the lake an average of 5-6 weeks a year. My longterm observations of wakeboats indicates to me that many wake board boats often travel underway with all of the ballast onboard to improve the ride for their wakeboat and passengers aboard, especially when traveling through areas that have already been chopped up. This makes the conditions worse for other boats but no one is actually wakeboarding.
How easy / difficult is it for these boats to pump out and / or take on ballast water? How long does it take?
Is the carrying of ballast when not wakeboarding a topic that is ever discussed within the wakeboard community?
is this something that the wakeboard community could be educated on?
 
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