Glen Canyon National "Recreation" Area

Status
Not open for further replies.
Stuart Hepworth said:
Truthfully, the closures have actually made that area even more enjoyable with fewer people around.
Click to expand...


And I think that is the best summary of your position that we are gonna get. Those hearty few who are able to launch in Blue Notch arent harming the lake in any way, and neither are those who drive down just to check it out. This is no different than the wakeboat p!$$ing match that occurs on here. Its a big lake and we dont all use it the same way. When one group of users starts sniping at another it makes an easier target to those who would stop it all.
 
Stuart Hepworth said:
Why can't they? Nobody is stopping them from going in there, camping, fishing, hunting...you can still do that. Is it more difficult to launch your boat? Yes. But, that doesn't mean you can't launch somewhere else. That doesn't mean that future generations can't enjoy that area. That's simply not true at all. I would argue that the closures have possibly made that area even more enjoyable.
Click to expand...
Does that mean that you are 'allowed' to access and camp at blue notch if you hike in, from say the road closure? I am not sure on the details of what is 'allowed' or not, but like others on this thread I am a north lake enjoyer and have been going to blue notch basically every year since 2011 and it is a very special place to me as it was the first place I started going to Powell before I got a big enough boat to launch at bullfrog and go all the way up, but still love the adventure of driving in a couple times a year.
 
Stuart Hepworth said:
Why can't they? Nobody is stopping them from going in there, camping, fishing, hunting...you can still do that. Is it more difficult to launch your boat? Yes. But, that doesn't mean you can't launch somewhere else. That doesn't mean that future generations can't enjoy that area. That's simply not true at all. I would argue that the closures have possibly made that area even more enjoyable.
Click to expand...
Thats a long row in a kayak or a canoe. As well as a difficult journey in a small tiller boat with a 10 or less hp motor....

Those who are destroying the landscape illegally are not going to stop doing illegal things because of a closure.... All it does is punish those who abide by the rules. Thats like saying a locked car never gets stolen, now thats something that we know is not true at all.

Lastly, how can an area be more enjoyable if it cannot be accessed? So only those by boat would get to enjoy? interesting take for sure on the topic.
 
It can be accessed. Heck, I've packed a kayak much further through a foot of snow than what you would have to lug it to get to the lake currently. The idea that you cannot access that area is completely false. You can still take your boat, your kayak, your canoe, whatever into that portion of the lake. But, you will have to carry it to be legal. Yes, that makes it much harder for some. But, that doesn't mean it isn't allowed or an option. I was in the middle of organizing a trip in their last year to fish Blue Notch out of a rubber raft that would have to be packed in...

And, those locked cars get stolen much less often...just like laws and rules will protect much better than no laws or rules.
 
Last edited:
Stuart Hepworth said:
Some of my favorite fishing places in this world are being destroyed as fisheries because of ATV and OTV use. I see many lakes being filled with sediment and run off coming directly down ATV roads that have been closed but still being used.
Click to expand...

How would a fishing place be destroyed by an ATV?
 
Stuart Hepworth said:
My understanding is that the only thing that has closed is vehicle access up to the shoreline. So, yes... You can still hike in, fish, camp and enjoy that area.
Click to expand...
In my golden years now, I could qualify for as a handy capped person and hauling stuff to the lakes edge from miles away is no longer possible for me without a vehicle. So now, only the young and fit get to access the lake here? As for having to boat from Halls or Bullfrog to get the Blue Notch area, seems like you're trying to limit Lake Powell to those with more means than others so only the well-to-do that get to enjoy this wonderous place. However, it seems there may be some hope based on the information you provided. It looks like in the future ATV's will still be allowed if you apply for and get a permit "*A permit system for vehicles to operate in designated SAA & ORV routes is in development."

So, conservation does not seem to be the driving force here IF you can get a permit for a vehicle, and I doubt if will be free!
 
Could one reason for the closure of the Blue Notch Road beyond a certain point be to avoid vehicles getting stuck in the mud so they have to be rescued? Seems like a reasonable safety consideration, plus the resources that would have to be diverted to deal with stuck vehicles by people who might not know any better, thinking they're driving on solid ground. I know as the lake drops, there's a temptation to drive closer and closer to the shore, but at some point, you might get in too deep in muck and not be able to get out... We've all seen the Matt's Road Recovery videos where he deals with this situation at the south end of the lake...
 
JFRCalifornia said:
Could one reason for the closure of the Blue Notch Road beyond a certain point be to avoid vehicles getting stuck in the mud so they have to be rescued? Seems like a reasonable safety consideration, plus the resources that would have to be diverted to deal with stuck vehicles by people who might not know any better, thinking they're driving on solid ground. I know as the lake drops, there's a temptation to drive closer and closer to the shore, but at some point, you might get in too deep in muck and not be able to get out... We've all seen the Matt's Road Recovery videos where he deals with this situation at the south end of the lake...
Click to expand...
I think thats definitely a consideration. Conversely, if you are stranded using a boat 50 miles up lake you are in a similar situation and the cost of rescue is high. I dont see why an enter at risk and cost sign cant exist at the beginning of the road.

I realize there are people who go in not knowing any better or are not prepared. But again why punish those who are prepared and know what they are doing.

This debate is identical to the surf boat debates. Lets enforce laws and rules that are already in place rather than resorting to a blanket solution like a ban. Bans are not going to stop the perpetrators this is about.
 
JFRCalifornia said:
Could one reason for the closure of the Blue Notch Road beyond a certain point be to avoid vehicles getting stuck in the mud so they have to be rescued? Seems like a reasonable safety consideration, plus the resources that would have to be diverted to deal with stuck vehicles by people who might not know any better, thinking they're driving on solid ground. I know as the lake drops, there's a temptation to drive closer and closer to the shore, but at some point, you might get in too deep in muck and not be able to get out... We've all seen the Matt's Road Recovery videos where he deals with this situation at the south end of the lake...
Click to expand...
Very true. Definitely could be
 
@Halls'65 why don't you take this to the Park Services and get some information from them? @nzaugg shared their contact information on a post here- Feedback Opportunity for Aramark and NPS I would reach out to both Nichelle and James (a call might get you a more accurate, unfiltered, and unprepared statement). You can also look up contact info for Heidie Grigg (Chief of External Affairs) and Michelle Kerns (Superintendent) who likely 'specialize' more in these areas, however they have been less responsive from my experience.

I think it's important for all of us to keep in regular contact with the Park Service and let them know what we want and what we see. I enjoy the dialogue here on WW but unfortunately I don't believe anything we post here makes any difference until these concerns are voiced to the park staff as I don't believe any of them read over these forums regularly.

Nichelle Rich
Concessions Management Specialist
Office: 928-608-6324
Cell: 928-660-7053
[email protected]

James Hickman
Concessions Management Specialist
Office: 928-608-6322
Cell: 928-614-0354
[email protected]
 
ashtonc77 said:
@Halls'65 why don't you take this to the Park Services and get some information from them? @nzaugg shared their contact information on a post here- Feedback Opportunity for Aramark and NPS I would reach out to both Nichelle and James (a call might get you a more accurate, unfiltered, and unprepared statement). You can also look up contact info for Heidie Grigg (Chief of External Affairs) and Michelle Kerns (Superintendent) who likely 'specialize' more in these areas, however they have been less responsive from my experience.

I think it's important for all of us to keep in regular contact with the Park Service and let them know what we want and what we see. I enjoy the dialogue here on WW but unfortunately I don't believe anything we post here makes any difference until these concerns are voiced to the park staff as I don't believe any of them read over these forums regularly.

Nichelle Rich
Concessions Management Specialist
Office: 928-608-6324
Cell: 928-660-7053
[email protected]

James Hickman
Concessions Management Specialist
Office: 928-608-6322
Cell: 928-614-0354
[email protected]
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing this, Ashton, but I think that Heidie Grigg has since retired.

Tiff
 
I've spoken with Superintendent Michelle Kerns about Blue Notch specifically. She was very professional and accommodating. She's the one who alerted me (us) to the public comment period that was approaching last year. Blue Notch, in my opinion, is the fallout of a larger issue stemming from a lawsuit by SUWA in which the verdict/settlement was for NPS to create a much more detailed (rigid, in my view) management plan for off-road travel. I'm not aware of any "infractions" what were taking place at that location, but it got caught up in the plan nonetheless.

She did tell me that travel to the shoreline at/near Blue Notch is permissible for loading/unloading. However, vehicles must return to the end of the improved road (where the sign is posted) during your stay. I'm not defending it nor am I in favor of it, but that's what she passed along.

There is a new version of the management plan that was announced (released?) within the last few weeks. I haven't had time to find it and study it out for changes yet.

EDIT: found it -
Glen Canyon National Recreation Area implements new regulations for off-road vehicle use - Glen Canyon National Recreation Area (U.S. National Park Service)

Official Docs & Background -

Federal Register :: Request Access

www.federalregister.gov www.federalregister.gov
 
Last edited:
JFRCalifornia said:
Could one reason for the closure of the Blue Notch Road beyond a certain point be to avoid vehicles getting stuck in the mud so they have to be rescued? Seems like a reasonable safety consideration, plus the resources that would have to be diverted to deal with stuck vehicles by people who might not know any better, thinking they're driving on solid ground. I know as the lake drops, there's a temptation to drive closer and closer to the shore, but at some point, you might get in too deep in muck and not be able to get out... We've all seen the Matt's Road Recovery videos where he deals with this situation at the south end of the lake...
Click to expand...
Sincere question. Why would any resources be needed by NPS should someone get stuck in Blue North (or any area of the lake). NPS wouldn’t rescue you. It would be up to some 3rd party. Just like if I have an issue with my boat and need towed in. I’m on my own to rescue.
 
Last edited:
Ryan said:
Sincere question. Why would any resources be needed by NPS should someone get stuck in Blue North (or any area of the lake). NPS wouldn’t rescue you. It would be up to some 3rd party. Just like if I have an aside with my boat and need towed in. I’m on my own to rescue.
Click to expand...
And every rescue contributes to the local economy. I’ve only been down the Blue Notch Road once and I’m pi@@ed that I won’t be able to do it again. Sq
 
Ryan said:
Sincere question. Why would any resources be needed by NPS should someone get stuck in Blue North (or any area of the lake). NPS wouldn’t rescue you. It would be up to some 3rd party. Just like if I have an aside with my boat and need towed in. I’m on my own to rescue.
Click to expand...
Fair question. By resources I don’t necessarily mean “NPS resources.” Every rescue —even a 3rd party—takes somebody’s time and money, plus gas, and commits that effort to rescuing you when others might need help at the same time…

Resources come in many flavors…
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top