End of an ERROR>.

[Dorado]

I am no liberal, I find it strange that so many conservatives are willing to overlook the many faults, opinions and behaviors of Trump that are anathema to their beliefs. Bullying, disrespectful, dishonest self aggrandizing behavior is OK as long as your not a Democrat? How far can he take this before some of our more reasonable republicans show their spine?

And Trump does not have a battle with the press, he has a battle with reality. I have never seen anyone repeatedly make statements that can be easily disproven, then deny he ever said them even when he on record. Wow.

 

[Bill Sampson]

I keep an eye on what is posted on anything other than fishing by new posters, have a lot of experience over the years with people showing up just to stir the pot. A lot of people wanted these posts out in the open on this new format/board, but it is one reason I had the Issues board closed on the old site, I kept people new to the board out unless I knew they were regular posters on WWs for other than anything political. If that is the only reason someone wants to post here, there is Facebook for that. For those of us who are regular posters on WWs and have fought these wars for 12 - 14 years we share our ups and downs, depending on who is in power at the time, but we learned from the Backpacker invasion over 10 years ago not to let things get out of hand here from people who only have an agenda. Our only agenda on WWs is fishing and recreation on Lake Powell, anything affecting the lake and her surrounds, and our shared love of Lake Powell..

Well said.

 

[John P Funk]

Personally, President Trump was not my candidate of choice. I supported Ben Carson throughout the primaries until he dropped out of the race. In my opinion he(Trump) became the Republican nominee by saying the things that many angry voters on the Republican side wanted to hear, and not necessarily putting forward policy ideas that appealed to us. That being said, once he became the nominee for the Republican party, I didn't have much choice but vote for him(the other candidates were atrocious at best). During his inaugural speech he said some things that made me believe I made the right choice. That being said, I'm not fond of the Executive Order and it's increased use in the modern Executive Branch, but I suspect we'll need a Constitutional Amendment to stem the tidal wave that has begun. On a broader note, a politician lied? Hold on, stop the presses, I can hardly believe it. As I recall there was another President who stated, "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan." and "You can keep your doctor, too." At some point since the New Deal, we've lost the sense that the Government is made up of "Public Servants", and that we are the masters(term limits would go a long way in improving this situation). I hope we've made a step in the right direction, but only time will tell.

 

[WinnsHawkII]

Reading all this makes my blood boil and my brain hurt all at the same time. This site is for Lake Powell, fishing and recreation. I understand the current admin in Washington (GOP or Dem) will always affect what happens those 4-8 years at our great lake, but IMHO, this is not the place for those discussions. As an admin, I think I would have deleted this thread on the fist post, simply due to the subject line. Knowing all it was meant to do was incite arguments and possibly inflate the ego of the original poster. Every poster on this thread, including myself, is right and wrong. We have a 2 party system for a reason, and neither party is correct or incorrect in all cases, they are there to balance each other out, and hopefully keep each other in check (which unfortunately does not work as well as it should). If the Dems had been left in charge unopposed for the last 50 years, Powell would have been drained (if the dam had ever even been built). We would probably all be driving "clean" hybrid/elec cars and more solar/wind plants would exist, and the Earth MIGHT be a third of a degree cooler. But how happy would we be if we had 100x worse water issues in the west because the gov't has refused to store water for 2 generations, worried about the impact on a one random frog species that lives on a river delta in central CA? Now, if the GOP were left in charge for the last 50 yrs unopposed Powell would be there, but can we really be sure how clean the water in the lake and the rivers feeding it would be? Odds are most cities would have Beijing style smog issues and rivers/lakes would be just as toxic as there, and the Earth MIGHT be a third of a degree warmer. Can we honestly say one is better than the other? Probably not, but we can all agree a middle ground is best.

 

[Waterbaby]

Reading all this makes my blood boil and my brain hurt all at the same time. This site is for Lake Powell, fishing and recreation. I understand the current admin in Washington (GOP or Dem) will always affect what happens those 4-8 years at our great lake, but IMHO, this is not the place for those discussions. As an admin, I think I would have deleted this thread on the fist post, simply due to the subject line. Knowing all it was meant to do was incite arguments and possibly inflate the ego of the original poster. Every poster on this thread, including myself, is right and wrong. We have a 2 party system for a reason, and neither party is correct or incorrect in all cases, they are there to balance each other out, and hopefully keep each other in check (which unfortunately does not work as well as it should). If the Dems had been left in charge unopposed for the last 50 years, Powell would have been drained (if the dam had ever even been built). We would probably all be driving "clean" hybrid/elec cars and more solar/wind plants would exist, and the Earth MIGHT be a third of a degree cooler. But how happy would we be if we had 100x worse water issues in the west because the gov't has refused to store water for 2 generations, worried about the impact on a one random frog species that lives on a river delta in central CA? Now, if the GOP were left in charge for the last 50 yrs unopposed Powell would be there, but can we really be sure how clean the water in the lake and the rivers feeding it would be? Odds are most cities would have Beijing style smog issues and rivers/lakes would be just as toxic as there, and the Earth MIGHT be a third of a degree warmer. Can we honestly say one is better than the other? Probably not, but we can all agree a middle ground is best.

It seems you missed it was the EPA who caused a toxic spill that fed down through the Navajo Reservation to Lake Powell last summer - and they were not held responsible. The new president has already stated he is going to hold them responsible for the spill. So that alone dispels much of your statement. Also I remind you a Republican President had this dam constructed. Environmentalists tried to stop it and have been trying to dismantle it since. As for the "smelt" in the California Delta - keeping water from farmers and ranchers, that is a 2" non-native smelt, not native to California or native to the USA - same as the Quagga is not native to the USA, but we have now in Lake Powell because neither party did anything to stop the spread when they could. Contrary to what radicals would have people believe, Republicans do not want dirty water and most regulations do nothing to keep our water clean - and your precious solar plants are doing a great job of killing birds and other wild life - funny how environmentalists cared about the bald eagle - til they did not care about the bald eagles being fried flying over solar plants or flying into windmills - which, BTW only give us a small % of energy in this country. In many ways with our newer technology fossil fuels are every bit as clean and hopefully we will have an all the above.. but the sky is not falling as you seem to believe.


But, I tell you what... it is a good idea if you stick to the recreation and fishing section of the board.

 

[Waterbaby]

And, this thread is out in the open because the members of the old board all voted to have these issues out in the public and not in a closed section of WWs with permissions to post in said section. Bart has done a great job of laying out the site and it is very easy when coming here to only read fishing or only read recreation section and never have to see anything else. So there is that, too. You don't like the subject matter - don't read it. Case solved, no deletion necessary [unless it is profanity-laced or purposely trying to start a argument or racist in tone].

 

[WinnsHawkII]

Waterbaby, all due respect, but did you even read my post before just attacking me? I am aware that the EPA caused that spill, I am from CO, and many of my Powell friends/family and crew live in the SW part of the state. And the EPA should be held 100% responsible for all damages, both fiscally and environmentally. I am aware who built the dam. So you are aware, I am a history teacher by trade. Now, I choose not to teach and instead work in the auto industry. This is because our system makes it so that teachers in this country do not get even close to a fair wage. I was simply trying to state that BOTH SIDES have their flaws, and what this country MIGHT be like if only one party ruled unopposed for the last 50 or so years, if you go back and read my post you will see that I gave negative examples of with this country MIGHT be like for both, not just one or the other. Please slow down and read the whole post before making me look like a liberal and accusing me of being one, which I am not, nor do I claim to be a conservative Republican.

The whole point of my post was that this webite/forum is NOT a place for this argument, and if I were an admin I would have pulled it down. Waterbaby, I will say you did a good job of proving my point in your last post. "Purposely trying to start an argument." How was this thread not that, when all it has done is started arguments between us all? From the subject line on, all this post was designed to do is start a political argument between friends, and it has accomplished that with flying colors!

 

[Dale]

Hope this is appropriate. It is "Morning in America" again!
Quote of the Week
When asked what he thinks about General ‘Mad Dog’ Mattis now being the Secretary of Defense, Rob O’Neill (the man who killed Bin Laden) said:

“General Mattis has a bear rug in his home, but it is not dead. It’s just afraid to move”.

 

[Dungee]

 

[VanillaIceCream]

I think there is a place for political discussion on this website.

Where else can we talk about politics and Lake Powell? Not discussing it won't help. Just let people be warned if they go into that thread, they might get their feelings hurt.

I'd make it a separate section. At the bottom. The basement. Only readable to members, not the public. Want to read and post in it? Sign up. Then WW has some control.


Set the rules.
Moderate it.
Someone gets out of control and breaks those rules; ban them for a day, week, month.

Erik

 

[Waterbaby]

I think there is a place for political discussion on this website.

Where else can we talk about politics and Lake Powell? Not discussing it won't help. Just let people be warned if they go into that thread, they might get their feelings hurt.

I'd make it a separate section. At the bottom. The basement. Only readable to members, not the public. Want to read and post in it? Sign up. Then WW has some control.


Set the rules.
Moderate it.
Someone gets out of control and breaks those rules; ban them for a day, week, month.

Erik

My choice was to do like we did on the old board, make a separate category and close it from the regular members on the board other than those asking permission to be able to view it. They took a vote and the majority said they did want to see these posts... but if we continue to have people grouse about it when they are perfectly able to totally ignore these threads [unlike the old board] then I will indeed ask Bart to create another category and close it to all but people who indicate they want to be included in these discussions. Frankly this has been an issue going back 14 years on the board - and we didn't have the ability to close the threads on the very first board [before the move to the second board - this is our third software]...... and this version Bart created for us is the easiest of all to ignore areas you are not interested in viewing. When I closed the section where we could discuss politics on the last board we had people complain that it should be out in the open.

I will not delete these threads as someone suggested above because it makes a couple of people uncomfortable - not when those people can easily ignore it and should have known from the title of the thread where it was going... but if we get multiple complaints then will revisit it.

We have always run this board in a pretty laid-back manner, having few rules - the first being no swearing [especially the F word], no purposely picking fights with other members [that will get a timeout] - we expect everyone here to be adults and treat one-another as adults even if we disagree on something - discuss like adults - and last no racism or racist posts.... I had to act like a lion trainer years ago when Wayne asked me to moderate the site after it got out of control when we were invaded by the Backpackers group. We will never allow that to happen again. So for now if you do not want to read anything political on WWs then don't read it.. Pretty simple really.

 

[Waterbaby]

We are already seeing positive activity here on Lake Havasu - the US Fish and Wildlife just announced they will lift the wake restrictions on the river between Lake Havasu and Topock. The city and visitors to the lake have been up in arms since this was arbitrarily put into effect in the middle of last summer to please the environmentalists who claimed the boat wakes bothered the birds who have made homes in the reeds growing up out of the silt washing down the river to the upper end of the lake... this was not a original wildlife area, the birds have settled there as the topography has changed due to the lake and the river [think Hite silt]...... They took the upper end of the lake away from boaters/skiers back in the 70's for the same reason - ruined one of the prime water-skiing areas on the lake when they did so..... but this was probably worse as there is a lot of boat traffic going up and down the river.

 

[botnb]

One of my favorite sites is pretty much wide open, and it gets raw at times, but like the old adage : "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen". All reasonable adults ( in my mind) should be able to stop themselves from reading posts that they SHOULD know will offend them. Let the adults have adult conversations.... JMO

 

[Waterbaby]

One of my favorite sites is pretty much wide open, and it gets raw at times, but like the old adage : "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen". All reasonable adults ( in my mind) should be able to stop themselves from reading posts that they SHOULD know will offend them. Let the adults have adult conversations.... JMO

Remember Wayne started this as just a fishing site. At first it was a fishing newsletter at all the marina's and then morphed into WWs, then people started showing up to ask recreation questions about the lake and eventually it morphed into the politics surrounding the lake, that was when people started to complain so we separated the issues section for the lake from the recreation and fishing, then the fishing people didn't like having recreation discussed when all they were interested in was fishing so those two items were separated out as well. While this is a privately run site, the owner of this site is a State employee and as such the rules of this site have always been different from more "raw" sites and has purposely been kept family friendly.

I forgot to add in my post above is we don't discuss religion here... politics is bad enough and can cause bad feelings between members, religion is even more divisive. I like to keep the politics to issues more relevant to the lake and the surrounding areas and actions taken by the government that affect our lake and public lands..... I keep most of my own political conversations these days to Facebook and that is the proper place for it. But there is plenty of things done on a daily basis which do affect the lake and the public lands [like Bears Ears and closing formerly public land from public recreation] which is rife for discussion... and from time-to-time things that absolutely cannot be ignored like the Bundy situation a few years ago or the budget shutdown, etc... and in that case we just ask is it's kept polite...

I guess you could say while there is plenty of other have at it or "raw" sites [AZBassZone comes to mind] we are a site that thinks everyone here is an adult and we are in mixed company and we should act like we are in mixed company, and even children peruse this site for fishing and recreation information.

 

[John P Funk]

Remember Wayne started this as just a fishing site. At first it was a fishing newsletter at all the marina's and then morphed into WWs, then people started showing up to ask recreation questions about the lake and eventually it morphed into the politics surrounding the lake, that was when people started to complain so we separated the issues section for the lake from the recreation and fishing, then the fishing people didn't like having recreation discussed when all they were interested in was fishing so those two items were separated out as well. While this is a privately run site, the owner of this site is a State employee and as such the rules of this site have always been different from more "raw" sites and has purposely been kept family friendly.

I forgot to add in my post above is we don't discuss religion here... politics is bad enough and can cause bad feelings between members, religion is even more divisive. I like to keep the politics to issues more relevant to the lake and the surrounding areas and actions taken by the government that affect our lake and public lands..... I keep most of my own political conversations these days to Facebook and that is the proper place for it. But there is plenty of things done on a daily basis which do affect the lake and the public lands [like Bears Ears and closing formerly public land from public recreation] which is rife for discussion... and from time-to-time things that absolutely cannot be ignored like the Bundy situation a few years ago or the budget shutdown, etc... and in that case we just ask is it's kept polite...

I guess you could say while there is plenty of other have at it or "raw" sites [AZBassZone comes to mind] we are a site that thinks everyone here is an adult and we are in mixed company and we should act like we are in mixed company, and even children peruse this site for fishing and recreation information.

Amen, Just Kidding

 

[wayne gustaveson]

Message Board Posting Guidelines
The Bulletin Board is one of the tools I use in my single minded attempt to manage Lake Powell fisheries to be the best they can be.

My main purpose is to manage fish but to do that I need to embrace ALL users of this wonderful resource. A boater, wake boarder or hiker may decide to fish if the right opportunity presents itself. Until that happens, I will let boaters talk about boats and boarders talk about boards and so on.

The Lake is under attack from a vocal minority that would see the lake drained. The vast, but often silent, majority needs to be aware of the political attacks and media campaigns waged against the very existence of Lake Powell. You can choose to surf the site and look for the comments that interest you.

This site is a free service without commercial sponsorship. It is hosted by Yamamoto Custom Baits. I thank them for the kindness.

You may create a profile by registering on the website before posting. All are welcome, just respect the rights of others and follow these simple rules (Guidelines for the individual forums are the same):

1. Use of profanity or any language suggesting profanity (abbreviations) will result in deletions.
2. Posting anything of a pornographic nature will result in an immediate suspension of privileges.
3. No personal attacks will be tolerated. Please post facts and opinions in a general nature without making an attack on any person or individual. DO NOT MAKE IT PERSONAL. If you mention another person's name in a heated discussion, your post may be deleted. If you make reference to another person in anger your post may be deleted. Stay on topic. Long discussion threads sometimes evoke emotions. Posting more than 3 times in a single thread may be grounds for deletion unless the thread is positive and general in nature.
4. Moderators of my choosing will have authority to enforce these guidelines. Moderators will suggest punitive measures when rules are broken. I will confer and then administer those sanctions.

Thanks for abiding by my rules. Use the discussion pages to learn more about the beauties of Lake Powell and how to increase your enjoyment of this great resource. It is not my intention to be fair to everyone that uses these Boards. I definitely favor those that share information in a positive manner. If you are a negative poster who looks at the dark side and detracts from the good then this may not be the place for you. I look at Lake Powell through rose colored glasses. If you disagree with that approach then go somewhere else.

Finally the most important rule: "If I don't like it, then I can remove it from my Board".

Suggestion: It is poor etiquette to post a whole message in capital letters. In message board protocol ALL-CAPS indicates that you are shouting or yelling.

(These are the guidelines from the old Bulletin Board that still apply to this one) I want all to have an opportunity to express an opinion, but it must be done in a positive fashion without profanity or anger.

Bart if you can post this somewhere on the new BB it would be appreciated. Wayne