Bullfrog North Ramp

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It sounds like a permanent low water ramp is going to end up being a major project, and I agree that the current main should be extended to an elevation that keeps it usable to the point where a new low ramp can take over so that there's no need for future closing. Simply start launching on the low ramp when water falls below the existing ramp. The existing ramp looks like it could still be usable at the current level if extended to the water. I'm sure the decisions won't come quickly considering the planning process is starting in January and then funding needs to be approved. Then work can begin and then there's cure time for any new ramp, not to mention relocating the marina. Sounds like it's alot more involved than just a dozer and cement truck. Hope there solutions are accomplished before the spring run off begins.
 
Meatwagon said:
It sounds like a permanent low water ramp is going to end up being a major project, and I agree that the current main should be extended to an elevation that keeps it usable to the point where a new low ramp can take over so that there's no need for future closing. Simply start launching on the low ramp when water falls below the existing ramp. The existing ramp looks like it could still be usable at the current level if extended to the water. I'm sure the decisions won't come quickly considering the planning process is starting in January and then funding needs to be approved. Then work can begin and then there's cure time for any new ramp, not to mention relocating the marina. Sounds like it's alot more involved than just a dozer and cement truck. Hope there solutions are accomplished before the spring run off begins.
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It is definetly more work than just pouring concrete (100% agree) but the bottom line is without a single, operational launch ramp on the North end of the lake, the rest of the "on lake" services really don't matter. Hite marina is a perfect example of this. :( I would think that this would be the main priority in Bullfrog right now.......Sadly, I didn't see any prep "staging" for anything "fixes" today.

If things got rushed, there is still enough time for cure on the concrete to be usable this ramp. If they used pre-fabed slabs, cured in a heated enviornment, they could be poured/cured while the earthmoving is being done.

Bottom line? We are dealing with the Gooberment and they really don't know how to get anything done in a hurry unless it benefits/hurts them. Miss a tax payment and find out how fast they can actually move on something and then compare times. SMDH. Very sad. If this ramp was privately owned by someone which relied on the income, solutions would have been made years ago in preperation.

It will be interesting to see what they come up with, if they do come up with something. Removing the coffee damn (yes, still playing that joke) looks to be the most cost effective and fastest solution, but I'm no engineer either.

Hope they figure out and execute something quick......You know.......Like they did in Wahweap.

But, I also understand this thinking, which is the negative point of all this......

Why invest the millions of dollars on a launch ramp in a lake which we see npo end to the receeding shoreline and this ramp may onluy be useable for a year or 2?

Trust me, I am the last one to want lower waters. I moved here because of the lake. But the hard truth has to be looked at. :(

I've reached my maxinum allowable post limit for 24 hours. haha
Have a great night everyone. See ya in the am
 
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Yos said:
Extending the ramp now would be the easiest thing to do. My only concern concern is what lies beneath. Is it the best idea to use hard fought for funds to beat a dead horse or use the funds to build a new ramp. If it has to be extended 100 yards to gain 20 feet of water is it worth it. Wish I had the answers.
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Dead horse?
 
For the purpose of gauging timeline, with an eye toward April, here’s a quick look back at the South end process.

The new ramp at Stateline was at the initial forming stage Aug 20. Eight weeks later (Oct 14) courtesy docks were in and new ramp was open. Obviously a bunch of preliminary staging of equipment, materials and grading was completed prior to that.

For the North end, with colder weather the cure time will be longer…but here’s hoping things will start hopping at Bullfrog after the holidays and the April date is still within reach.🤞🤞
A7F42192-3765-47A0-8F50-CD83EBB188BD.jpegC1766BBB-DC16-40EB-B0AF-36E5485071A3.jpeg

On-site Stateline concrete batching plant Aug 20.
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I/we built the “coffin” dam, built the grade, set the forms and poured the concrete ramp at Yuba 49 years ago. Before that it was gravel. I know how long it takes and 4 months is a little long. I realize government moves slower, I contract with them regularly and I was surprised how fast the south end was completed, I would hope we get the same attention up North. My concern is that they allow us to be “free” to launch our boats at our own risk until the ramp is completed. Not all of us have had cement ramps and watchful eyes on us all of our lives, we can take care of ourselves most of the time if allowed to. Gosh I wonder how they launched back in the 60’s in their sedans? 🤔
Done with another rant, sorry, good night. I just want to get on the lake!
 
When I went down there yesterday, I was really surprised that nothing was staged to even begin work on something to expand the ramp or relocate the ramp (which would require much more work IMHO).

Talking with a few Aramark employees, they haven't heard anything from the grapevine about a start date on anything either. Just kept hearing, "they say plans are in the works".

I didn't go down Stanton to see if there were any lowboys loaded with dozers though. (anyone that knows Stanton will know this is a joke. ;) )

The dozer that was on the main ramp is gone now, but there is a wheel loader there now. Not exactly the correct piece of equipment for stripping top soil and rock effectively, but they could start pulling loose material with it.

And I know that it is the holiday season and not much really gets accomplished in this week between the 25th and the 1st no matter where you go, but this issue didn't just "pop up" on December 24th.

Hopefully they are planning well enough to utilize the longer days and warmer temperatures when they start happening but dozers, graders, dump truck and compactors really don't care if it's freezing out. There is a lot of earth moving that needs to be done before concrete can even be thought of being brought in.

I do hope they pull something out of their hats pretty quickly, but if they are, they sure are keeping hush, hush and the equipment delivery must be a night operation "black ops" kind of delivery. Unless the Park service just doesn't have a plan on investing the money and time to keep Bullfrog alive......
 
PowellBride said:
I think the key take away from Shott’s comments about the north end is that funding had not yet been procured. Until funding is determined, nothing is going to happen….my 2 cents
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I'm sure that is true. Goverment funding usually is never very fast. But it does seem strange to me that one part of the lake gets expidited funding and a ramp improvement and another is being left to dry up without a definite solution in sight.
Maybe not enough outcry from the North end to make it happen faster?
I'm still doing my snow dance and praying Mother Nature fixes the issue so we don't have to rely on Uncle Sam.
 
Dave I. said:
I'm sure that is true. Goverment funding usually is never very fast. But it does seem strange to me that one part of the lake gets expidited funding and a ramp improvement and another is being left to dry up without a definite solution in sight.
Maybe not enough outcry from the North end to make it happen faster?
I'm still doing my snow dance and praying Mother Nature fixes the issue so we don't have to rely on Uncle Sam.
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Mother nature and Uncle Sam: the original odd couple!

I'm casting my lot with Mother.
 
Dworwood said:
My concern is that they allow us to be “free” to launch our boats at our own risk until the ramp is completed. Not all of us have had cement ramps and watchful eyes on us all of our lives, we can take care of ourselves most of the time if allowed to. Gosh I wonder how they launched back in the 60’s in their sedans? 🤔
Done with another rant, sorry, good night. I just want to get on the lake!
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I believe this depends entirely on how many people launch in a bad spot and Matt has to come pull them out.
 
Another thought about a ramp extension is that the extension does not need to be as wide as the existing ramp. If they extend the main ramp it could be less than I/2 the width of the existing ramp or even less than that. Two or three lanes would be sufficient I believe and it would cost a fraction to complete. Any thoughts on that?
 
The topography is not suited to a simple ramp pour like at the Stateline Gustaveson ramp. From the bottom of the existing concrete (3,570'), it's level ground out to the "coffin" dam, then about five feet of drop, then gradual slope to the lake. They would need to do some really major excavation to continue the grade of the existing ramp. (See the old ferry ramp by Hobie Cat Beach for what that would look like.) I would put my effort into getting the north ramp usable down to 3,510', then laying down concrete on the spur ramp, and digging out the channel to the north/west of the spur ramp to get boats out to the lake. The only ramp design that I would see as being feasible without an incredible amount of earth moving would be the sideways launch like people have been doing off the spur ramp, then a mini Castle Rock Cut out to the center of the valley. There just isn't enough gradient in that area for a straight-ahead ramp.

Great job with the pictures, Dave I.! There is nothing as good as boots on the ground when you want reliable, accurate information.
 
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