Beach Bag mess

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Bill Sampson said:
Laketime, who manages my houseboat, offers these bags as an option, but you take them along with you on the boat, and they do not mention drilling holes to keep them in place.
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It looks like when properly sized and placed, they wouldn't need any pinning. And while they do look goofy out there, they don't detract from the scenery any more than a houseboat, or tent, or canopy or anything else you see along the shore while enjoying the lake.

These look like a great, low impact way of allowing many more boaters to enjoy the lake without being stacked on top of each other (more camp spots). It is a public resource and ALL should be welcome to use it, while following the laws, and trying to be decent human beings.
 
I think the “concept” of the bags is fine. I was contacted on here two years ago by the company and it seemed interesting. They also talked about us taking the bags and setting up ourselves.

But clearly the business model evolved to a point they are now reserving beaches. And leaving big ugly damaging bags on the beach for extended time.

And the more I look at these huge heavy bags on the beach I think they do just as much if not more damage than a well placed pin hole. It’s like parking a car on the beach and anchoring to it. The car will do damage.

So from my perspective there are a couple problems with this new system. Again the solution may be as bad as the problem it’s solving. I get the intent but there are consequences to this system.

Mike
 
Dorado said:
You could. But you would probably end up in a confrontation over the spot. There are plenty of entitled hot heads that would make a confrontation not only unpleasant, but potentially dangerous...which is not how most want to spend their vacations. NPS needs to step up on this...
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If you want a description of what beach invasion/confrontation looks like, here's a story from past experience...

A Tale of Campsite Selection Karma

It’s not often I encounter something I’ve never experienced before on Lake Powell, and when I do it’s usually a pleasant surprise. But very rarely, it is not... I just finished a 4-day tent camping trip up and down the lake, blowtorch hot in the sun, but fantastic in the water. A few new...
wayneswords.net wayneswords.net
 
Thanks for sharing the story. That’s a bummer for sure. It’s a complex issue.

But let’s say that you left that tent there to sell the spot to someone else for profit. Do you think those people should still move and let you make your profit off that spot?

I think in all of our trips we have only moved into a spot once that had anything and it was a chair that was half in the water making it look like it has been there for awhile. We knew there was a chance someone would come back to claim that spot, which they never did.

We also left our spot one time to go dump and fill with more fuel. We left anchors, chairs, etc.. on the beach and when we came back someone had parked in our spot.

So I know how it feels to have your spot taken. We ended up parking right next to them and they left the next day. Fortunately it was a small houseboat and we were the loud ones.

So yes there are cases of beach issues all of the time. But this beach bag process will make it worse. And again the problem for me is it’s for profit.

Mike
 
Dorado said:
You could. But you would probably end up in a confrontation over the spot. There are plenty of entitled hot heads that would make a confrontation not only unpleasant, but potentially dangerous...which is not how most want to spend their vacations. NPS needs to step up on this...
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I’d probably stand up to them. But my wife is one that won’t stand up to idiots like this. I’d have her video just enough to show intimidation and go probably.
 
I agree the profit motive changes the equation for sure, for a lot of reasons. For one, there is no “reservation system” for beaches at Lake Powell, and if there were, it would seem that only a licensed concessionaire would be allowed to operate one, under direction of the NPS.

The concept of scouting a beach and reserving it with a tent, chair, kayak, etc. is different. Someone in the party actually came there, found the spot, and had the intent of using it. No one is making money off this. I do think it’s important to clearly establish intent, and a tent does that. A boat for sure. An old half-submerged chair, maybe harder to tell… is that left behind trash? Something someone is willing to sacrifice? Again,establishing intent to occupy is key.
 
JFRCalifornia said:
If you want a description of what beach invasion/confrontation looks like, here's a story from past experience...

A Tale of Campsite Selection Karma

It’s not often I encounter something I’ve never experienced before on Lake Powell, and when I do it’s usually a pleasant surprise. But very rarely, it is not... I just finished a 4-day tent camping trip up and down the lake, blowtorch hot in the sun, but fantastic in the water. A few new...
wayneswords.net wayneswords.net
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We’ve been coming to Lake Powell one to five times every year since 1996 … this will be our 26th year!

Anywho, our line as we shake our heads at the incredulously clueless is, “two thousand miles of shoreline” and unsaid is, “yet here you are choosing to get up in our space.”

Really appreciate your posts and experience, JFR. I enjoyed reading your story of a very unenjoyable situation.
 
JFRCalifornia said:
If you want a description of what beach invasion/confrontation looks like, here's a story from past experience...

A Tale of Campsite Selection Karma

It’s not often I encounter something I’ve never experienced before on Lake Powell, and when I do it’s usually a pleasant surprise. But very rarely, it is not... I just finished a 4-day tent camping trip up and down the lake, blowtorch hot in the sun, but fantastic in the water. A few new...
wayneswords.net wayneswords.net
Click to expand...
Been watching Louisiana Law. They have occasions with duck blinds on public property that are FCFS and often have the idiot roid boots that try to intimidate There way into choice spots that are taken. They take it very seriously. I hope NPS does too.
 
This is also bad for the poor people that pay over $2k to come a beach and someone is in the spot the beach bag people said to go to. What a horrible way to start your Lake Powell trip.

Nobody wins but the company making a profit. And lots of potential losers in this mess.

Mike
 
So here is the reply to me email expressing my concerns:
Hello Mr. Hill - thank you for reaching out and sharing your concerns related to the implementation of the pilot alternative anchoring program, and beach bags being left unattended for days, unoccupied sites, pinning, etc.
Your concerns are important to us. Let me check into it and I (or the program manager) will get back to you.
We appreciate your interest very much.
Best regards,
Mary




V/R
Mary Plumb

National Park Service
Glen Canyon National Recreation Area, Rainbow Bridge National Monument
Office of Communications, Public Affairs
Mary_Plumb@nps.gov
 
Michael Pyle said:
So we were out cruising the lake yesterday and there are a bunch of beaches with beach bags and no boats. I saw at least 5 vacant beaches with filled bags.

It looks like basically these guys are reserving and selling beach spots by saving them with their bags. How is this even allowed?

What a mess.

On top of Basically littering the beaches with huge ugly bags they have to pin the bags to the beach. Each bag takes two pins. LOL 😂

Yeah this is a great solution. Sarcasm

Mike
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Clearly they are anchored to the rock. What makes this any different?
 
I'm normally one of the biggest advocates for Antelope Point and the Navajos, but if this is indeed true, for them to team up with this Beach Bag outfit leaves me REALLY disappointed.

I've always believed that they considered the land sacred. Now it appears that they'll let some upstart business desecrate the land with gaudy monstrosities pinned into the rocks as long as the tribe gets a cut.

If this is traceable to Antelope Point, who do we complain to?
 
Ed_on_WD said:
I'm normally one of the biggest advocates for Antelope Point and the Navajos, but if this is indeed true, for them to team up with this Beach Bag outfit leaves me REALLY disappointed.

I've always believed that they considered the land sacred. Now it appears that they'll let some upstart business desecrate the land with gaudy monstrosities pinned into the rocks as long as the tribe gets a cut.

If this is traceable to Antelope Point, who do we complain to?
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Antelope point still has to answer to LPNRA doesn’t it? Even if not they’d be subject to their rules on lake.
 
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