Beach Bag mess

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Ski resorts, Disney, and first class on airlines are all examples of private enterprise. Fastrak, in California at least, is a franchise given to a contractor who built those express lanes and is then allowed to charge for their use.

The Beach Bag contractor did not build the lake or beach, and they do not own it. And if a First Class passenger fails to show up for his flight, a coach passenger stands a chance of being upgraded to that premium seat for free.
 
Wait a minute! Did anybody do an Environmental Impact report?

I bet those big blue bags will soak up enough solar energy in July and August to parboil the inshore crawdads when they drain those bags back into the lake, and what about those carp eggs laid in the aquatic weeds at the waterline?

I'm only being half sarcastic. I bet the Sierra Club could have a field day holding the Beach Bag company liable for thermal damage to Lake Powell's aquatic flora and fauna!
 
I'm all for saving a spot when out scouting. but for me and my crew we will respect the chair/cooler/tent.

when we claim a spot we ALWAYS at least leave a couple people with said spot/cooler/chairs/tent even to make if fully aware we are occupying it and more so on our way in with the houseboat. If the houseboat is going to be another day or two we go ahead and boat camp and enjoy the old days of how we explored/camped at Powell while aquiring our home for the week or more.

this to me is the most "secure" and respectable way to claim a camp/houseboat spot.

if i saw these bags and no one in sight for hours or more. i'd feel inclinded to anchor away empty the bags and pack them up. didn't see anything here but a nice beach to call home for awhile.

but i don't know i might think differently then the current crowds.

on the standpoint of a service doing this for a group of or someone who is disabled i fully applaud them. but feel someone should be present to "claim" the beach. not just bags.

the bags seem like a campsite rental space. "oh you are in blah blah canyon beach bag setup #3, all ready to go for you."
 
I don't know about the bags, but three years ago I personally witnessed a neighboring houseboat receive a fine of $200 for drilling and staking in the sandstone to tie up his houseboat in Bullfrog Bay. I later talked to the owner and he told me he'd "do it every time" even if it meant paying a fine each time because it was such a secure way to anchor his boat. Seems as if the same rules aren't applying here?
 
Additive said:
Is it against the rules to pound stakes in the ground given the national recreation status? I don't know if it equates to those that drill holes to place metal bars to anchor boats from. It is my understanding that it is illegal to do that.
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From what i understand you may drill in the rock if it is under the water line I have never tried to do this but that is what a park ranger told me one year
 
Rainbowbridge said:
do you use the cordless or the 110V drill underwater??

:unsure:
;)
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Hahaha...I think he means the high water line?

The whole idea of "reserving" a spot by placing something on the shore, when you are not actually using it by camping there, is more than questionable. That NPS is somehow sanctioning this, with all the much more innocuous activities that they ban, is kind of unbelievable...and I am not an NPS basher like so many here....
 
Jackalope said:
beachbagsanchors.com

NPS Announces Pilot Program

A proposed 3-year pilot study by the National Park Service would seek to safely meet the needs of boaters while addressing resource damage and safety concerns on Lake Powell. Beach Bags would be a part of the solution to preserve and protect Lake Powell and avoid the $250 per pin for pin anchoring.
beachbagsanchors.com beachbagsanchors.com

beachbagsanchors.com

2022 Services

We are taking reservations for the 2023! Flop, Fill & Chill …or just chill Inquire today for pricing, sizing, and availability for your houseboat and vacation dates. Full Service Relax, we'll do it all. Purchase Custom Anchor System Full-Service Anchoring Sit back and relax. It's in the bag...
beachbagsanchors.com beachbagsanchors.com

www.nps.gov

20220526 - Glen Canyon National Recreation Area (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov www.nps.gov
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Reads to me as if these bags have been installed as a service for any and all to securely anchor without needing to drill in pins.

They are ugly though. Really them pegged around messes up Lake Powell’s pristine beauty.
 
powellster said:
From what i understand you may drill in the rock if it is under the water line I have never tried to do this but that is what a park ranger told me one year
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The referenced material/links doesn't mention above or below the waterline. Either location does the same damage to the shore.

Boaters are reminded that pin anchoring is illegal. This practice damages resources, creates safety hazards, and is a form of vandalism. Houseboaters that utilize any form of pin anchoring are subject to enforcement actions, including the requirement to relocate or end their journey. For more information on safe and legal conventional methods for anchoring your vessel, please visit: Anchoring A Houseboat - Glen Canyon National Recreation Area (U.S. National Park Service)

The practice of pin anchoring within the boundaries of Glen Canyon NRA is considered injuring, defacing, and disturbing to mineral, archaeological, and paleontological resources. Pinning into sandstone creates a permanent hole. As lake levels rise and fall, water rapidly dissipates carbonate minerals from the pinning hole, weakening the surrounding stone. This increases the development of geological hazards and rock falls as the sandstone fractures and flakes at an increased rate. Glen Canyon NRA has over 2,500 documented archeological and paleontological sites throughout the park. Pin anchoring can cause irreversible damage to these resources. Pins sometimes become permanently lodged in the sandstone, posing a significant safety hazard to visitors and vessels.
Approved May 26, 2022. William Shott, Superintendent
 
I would be inclined to use them given that they go unused for days. If someone comes along saying it is theirs, I would inquire under what conditions they lay claim to a beach in a national recreation area. I do not like this as a business model or allowable? under the NPS.
 
We honor the chair cooler placement to save a spot. That’s a person going and finding a spot ahead of time and saving it.

What these guys are doing is if I went and put put chairs and ice chest and sold them to people. That’s what’s going on and it’s flat out not OK. No business for profit should be allowed to sell beach reservations.

Not to get into the pin argument but I don’t think pins in those spots are doing as much damage as these bags. Pins hole are safe, small, and work. And they fill in over time. I still think the idea of a sand slurry you make and fill the holes would work well and solve the problem.

But this bag company is taking advantage of the system. And I believe the bags do have impact on the beaches. What do you think a super heavy bag does to the sandstone. Not to mention the heat and how ugly they are. Clean one up that’s been there for a couple weeks and take a pic. I bet it’s way worse than a 1” hole.

Mike
 
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Dougie said:
At major ski resorts these days, you can pay $50 -$100 supplement for your lift ticket each day and go to the front of the lift line. Disney charges $20 per person per ride to do the same thing over and above their Genie+ or FastPass system. Two tiers for those who have the money. Kind of like flying first class. First to board, extra room and services. It’s a growing mentality getting out of control.
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Those are PRIVATE companies - not a National Park paid for by ALL of us!!
 
I was under the impression the bag alternative was implemented PURELY to mitigate pins (illegal drilling of holes). There is no added value to the bag alternative if holes are being drilled anyway! It won't take long for the NPS to stop that (drilling) practice, hopefully. Thanks for bringing it up! That's disgusting to drill those holes.

As to no boats being present, that's just part of the game. The company that provided and fills the bags, as I understand it, can't be everywhere at once. So, I reckon the customer contacts them and tells them about where and when they'd like to anchor. The bag company must somehow communicate the bag location back to the customer (GPS coordinates, photos, etc.???) so the customer can find their "spot". Personally, I don't have a problem with that as long as the whole show is less than the 14 day limit (i.e., bag placement to bag removal timeline).
 
Michael Pyle said:
We honor the chair cooler placement to save a spot. That’s a person going and finding a spot ahead of time and saving it.

What these guys are doing is if I went and put put chairs and ice chest and sold them to people. That’s what’s going on and it’s flat out not OK. No business for profit should be allowed to sell beach reservations.

Not to get into the pin argument but I don’t think pins in those spots are doing as much damage as these bags. Pins hole are safe, small, and work. And they fill in over time. I still think the idea of a sand slurry you make and fill the holes would work well and solve the problem.

But this bag company is taking advantage of the system. And I believe the bags do have impact on the beaches. What do you think a super heavy bag does to the sandstone. Not to mention the heat and how ugly they are. Clean one up that’s been there for a couple weeks and take a pic. I bet it’s way worse than a 1” hole.

Mike
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Hi Mike, The pins do, in fact, do damage and are not fillable (unless with a cement/sand mixture). That's the problem, is they form a "cavity" (similar to a tooth) and give erosion/weathering a foothold/place to start. Though miniscule, at first, grow with time. Admittedly, back in the 80's I am guilty of drilling a couple of 1/4" diameter holes in a quiet canyon (no wind, so 1/4" was enough) and immediately stopped the practice once I became educated more about it. I agree the bags are ugly, but they cause no damage to the stone when placed properly (not pinned). No placement should exceed 14 days, per the law. Please don't take offense to these sentences. We're on the same side.
 
The Oracle said:
I was under the impression the bag alternative was implemented PURELY to mitigate pins (illegal drilling of holes). There is no added value to the bag alternative if holes are being drilled anyway! It won't take long for the NPS to stop that (drilling) practice, hopefully. Thanks for bringing it up! That's disgusting to drill those holes.

As to no boats being present, that's just part of the game. The company that provided and fills the bags, as I understand it, can't be everywhere at once. So, I reckon the customer contacts them and tells them about where and when they'd like to anchor. The bag company must somehow communicate the bag location back to the customer (GPS coordinates, photos, etc.???) so the customer can find their "spot". Personally, I don't have a problem with that as long as the whole show is less than the 14 day limit (i.e., bag placement to bag removal timeline).
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You are not OK with 1" pins but OK with these bags being left on the beach for weeks and spots being "reserved" for profit?

Would it be OK to put a a bunch of tents with my company name on all the beaches and rent those spots? as long as I move the tents every 145 days?

It sounds like they only need to pin the bags that hold the larger boats. Which really only larger boats need to be pinned in the first place. So its not helping and actually now doing more damage. You can only sand anchor in so many spots so its not like its possible to just say everyone needs to use the sand. I think straps and other ways to attach to rocks do just as much damage if not more.

This is a case where the solution is worse than the problem it was solving. But someone now makes a lot of profit from it. I just looked at the pricing and its $1300 a week for these bags and thats just the rental not setup. So someone could pay over $2K to use these bags.


Edit- just saw your second post. Problem is these bags are doing damage. And someone is profiting from them.

Mike
 
Camp sites should not be allowed to be reserved on the shores of Lake Powell. That is just privatization of lands within the public's National parks. Part of the lottery of Lake Powell is finding a good camp site and enjoying your time there. If these companies are allowed to gobble up all the good sites and make you pay a fee to them to use them, they are making money off the backs of the taxpayer. This needs to end immediately. This stuff just drives me crazy. They regulate every other move you make at the Lake, but allow stuff like this to take root because someone gets a few bucks thrown at them. Public should not stand for this to continue. I hope a good number of unattended beach bags start to have big holes poked in them. Hence forth, users of beach bags shall be known as D-Bags.
 
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