One item to bear in mind is that if you stop suddenly and slack gets into the tow line (say someone cuts in front of you and need to stop quick) be careful that the tow rope doesn't get wrapped in one of the houseboat props when you drive away. I have seen (rescued) a few that had that happen and the strong rope wound so tight that it actually pulled the outdrive out of the houseboat causing a massive leak. The boats had to be grounded quick to avoid going to the bottom. Remember also that if you get a big leak try stuffing rags into the hole to slow the water down.
Towing boat behind houseboat question
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Gem Morris
Keeper of San Juan Secrets
Not so fast capt.catfish. The carabiner I use made by BlackDiamond is rated to 5,620 lbs and it cost about $11 at REI.
AND...
There is absolutely no way the carabiner I use is going to come undone. There are 4 separate actions that must be done (one after the other) to open the carbiner.
Remember, people trust their lives to these routinely, hanging regularly from heights that you'd starve to death before you hit the bottom.
That's good enough for me.
A shackle simply needs to untwist and it's open. If you want to get out 2 crescent wrenches and really cinch down a shackle go for it. Good luck getting it open in an emergency (boat sinking for instance). With practice, the 4 steps on a carbiner can be done in 1 or 2 seconds yet they are completely secure.
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There are also -
- 3300 lb rated threaded links ($4) - https://www.amazon.com/CURT-82932-Threaded-3300Lb-Capacity/dp/B001EOV3DO
- 5000 lb rated S-hooks ($5) - https://www.amazon.com/81288-S-Hook-Safety-5000Lb-Capacity/dp/B000LOI69C
- 7800 lb rated Clevis-style hooks ($7) - https://www.amazon.com/81900-Clevis-Safety-Latch-Grade/dp/B000LOKBC2
capt.catfish
Active Member
I stand corrected, the carabiners I have previous priced out in that load range were much more expensive (that was at a marine supplier and not a climbing store, and was a few years ago). While they are a piece of life saving equipment for climbers, there are a lot of types of carbiners out there and many are not load rated at all. I wasn't saying a shackle was preferable, just advocating that you be aware of what the load rating was for any connectors that you planned to use.
I usually use a shackle and I carry a rigging knife with a shackle key on it, but I may look at purchasing one of the S-hooks that BartsPlace listed. Having a shackle pin back out in a short-term application like towing is extremely unlikely, if the pin is properly seated (not wrenched down, just snug and all the way in); generally that is more a concern when you have a shackle in place for longer periods (days, weeks, or years). For long-term applications there are safety shackles (separate nut with a cotter pin) or you can mouse the shackle.
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capt.catfish
Active Member
I like the S-hook and may buy a few for future use. When I followed the link to the threaded link, the title stated a 3300-lbs load capacity, but in the description it states a 1100-lbs load capacity...not sure which one is right.
I hadn't noticed that, but it's always a good practice to read through the specs carefully. I found a 5000 lb version at Home Depot once upon a time. I think it was 9/16. I bought it and have used it here and there, but it's heavy enough to sink my floating rope (all 60' of it) if I'm not careful. I'm thinking I may go to the S-hook for future purchases as well. Or perhaps try Gem's carabiners.
Endurance
Well-Known Member
I will join with those who like a tubing rope. As they noted, tubing ropes are made of polypropylene. The polypropylene lines are great because they have a little elasticity. That means that when you pull them taut, they give a little. That is kinder to the boats at both ends of a polypropylene line. It also makes the rope less likely to break where something like a nylon rope is more likely to snap. The other advantage of a polypropylene tubing ropes is that they float. Using nylon ropes makes it pretty much certain that you'll suck one into a prop. I would like to say I didn't have to learn that lesson by sad experience . . . twice.
I bought a straightline brand. They have a little float at one end that helps with the whole floating concept. The current model looks like this:
Where I differ from others is that rather than use some kind of a metal hook at the end, I thread the rope through my bow eye then bring it up to a side cleat where I run it trough the center of the cleat and put the loop of the rope around the side cleat like this:
I make a similar loop through my towing cleat on my houseboat. I like this better than a metal hook at the end for two reasons. First, someone undoing the rope from inside the boat being towed doesn't have to lean over the bow precariously. I think it's a little safer to avoid leaning out like that if possible. Second, and more important, a rope without a metal end still floats. A rope without a metal end retains all of the floating advantages that we tried so hard to get in the first place.
I agree that we all use larger ropes than necessary for towing. My 6,100 pound rope would allow me to dangle twice the weight of my boat directly off a cliff and still hold. Even so, it is easy to talk yourself into a big rope. A rope rated for 2,375 pounds is $20. But for only $5 more, you can get one that is rated for 4,100 pounds. Once you're at the $25 price of a 4,100 pound rope, you're only $10 away from a $35 rope rated for 6,100 pounds. So I spring for the 6,100 pound rope. Here is a link to the place where I bought mine: http://www.marine-products.com/straight-line-tube-rope-supreme-6p-grn.html
One last thought. The best answer is one that I hope to implement one of these days. It is called a boathitch, made by folks that developed it at Lake Powell for Lake Powell. Here is a link: http://www.theboathitch.com/ I will admit they're a little expensive, but they have some distinct advantages.
I bought a straightline brand. They have a little float at one end that helps with the whole floating concept. The current model looks like this:
Where I differ from others is that rather than use some kind of a metal hook at the end, I thread the rope through my bow eye then bring it up to a side cleat where I run it trough the center of the cleat and put the loop of the rope around the side cleat like this:
I make a similar loop through my towing cleat on my houseboat. I like this better than a metal hook at the end for two reasons. First, someone undoing the rope from inside the boat being towed doesn't have to lean over the bow precariously. I think it's a little safer to avoid leaning out like that if possible. Second, and more important, a rope without a metal end still floats. A rope without a metal end retains all of the floating advantages that we tried so hard to get in the first place.
I agree that we all use larger ropes than necessary for towing. My 6,100 pound rope would allow me to dangle twice the weight of my boat directly off a cliff and still hold. Even so, it is easy to talk yourself into a big rope. A rope rated for 2,375 pounds is $20. But for only $5 more, you can get one that is rated for 4,100 pounds. Once you're at the $25 price of a 4,100 pound rope, you're only $10 away from a $35 rope rated for 6,100 pounds. So I spring for the 6,100 pound rope. Here is a link to the place where I bought mine: http://www.marine-products.com/straight-line-tube-rope-supreme-6p-grn.html
One last thought. The best answer is one that I hope to implement one of these days. It is called a boathitch, made by folks that developed it at Lake Powell for Lake Powell. Here is a link: http://www.theboathitch.com/ I will admit they're a little expensive, but they have some distinct advantages.
Great idea and rationale. I'll give it a try!
Very interesting! I love the fact that it can stay attached while mooring/anchoring the houseboat! Thanks for posting!
capt.catfish
Active Member
About 10-years ago I was working on a project looking at quick couplings for lifting an oceanographic data buoy. It quickly became apparent that nothing off the shelf was going to work for our application and I ended up designing and fabricating a retrieval hook in house. However, I did remember looking at carabiners and dismissing them out of hand. After reading @Gem Morris's post above I wondered if I was too hasty in my judgement of carabiners, but something at the back of my mind kept nagging at me. After a couple hours of trying to sleep, I finally remembered why I had dismissed them and made a mental note not to use them. With a little help from Google to jog my memory, here are the two reasons I don't use carabiners:
1) Virtually all recreational climbing carabiners will have a warning to the effect of "For Climbing and Mountaineering Only" for good reason. They are not intended for use in a continuous load application like lifting or towing; they are made for shock loading and, after seeing a significant shock load, are supposed to be removed from service.
2) The rating on a recreational climbing carabiner is not a safe working load, it is a failure rating. So, if you had a carabiner rated at 25-kN, or 5625-lbs, and you loaded it to that point, it would fail. It would likely fail at a lower load if it had previously seen continuous high loads or been impact loaded. Shackles and other couplers designed for lifting and towing are rated with a safe working load, which usually uses a factor of safety of 6. If you divided the rating for the carabiner by the same factor of safety to get a safe working load, you'd get a working load of about 1000-lbs and it's questionable if you should use it again after it has seen that sort of load (at least for aluminum carabiners).
There are industrial load rated carabiners; they're usually steel and they cost more...like $25 for a 5000-lbs rated carabiner at Grainger. Of course there's alternatives to shackles that are both cheaper and easier to use, per the list that you posted.
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Great info, @capt.catfish! Thanks for sharing!
capt.catfish
Active Member
I think nylon actually has about the same elasticity as polypropylene line, if the lines are of similar construction; at least looking at this chart both double braided nylon and polypropylene have around 20% elongation at failure and nylon is rated as excellent for shock load absorption. However, your polypropylene tubing robe does have the advantage of floating and if it's a hollow core line, which I think most ski and tube tow lines are, then it will probably have considerably more stretch due to construction of the rope.
Very cool, but it is pricey...might have to look at adding this to the wish list for future improvements on the houseboat.
ScottF
Well-Known Member
On the rare occasions when I tow my sport boat I use either an anchor rope or one of the heavy duty tube ropes to pull it. These ropes have a loop in the end. Rather than attaching with a hook, carabiner or coupler I thread the rope through the eye bolt on the sport boat then thread the rope through the loop and run it to my cruiser. This is a little more effort than attaching with a hook, but I don't typically have a hook available.
I tow a Searay Sundancer 260, dry weight 6900 lbs, behind a 73' house boat. I use two 50' 1" yellow polypropylene rope I bought in bulk at Lowe's in a Y attached to the back cleats of the houseboat going to the bow hook of the boat. I use stainless hooks for the bow and the rope floats. I have not had any problems. We only run at 2500 RPM in the houseboat (around 5 mph if that). I never worry about it coming loose, but watch it constantly. Typically the boat is full of gas as well and it saves a half tank when going to Iceberg or up to Knowles. I never take it that way into a canyon and when we get close we release in the main channel and use it to find a camping spot.
I am surprised each year by how many towed vessels swamp and capsize at the Lake. This happens when our beloved lake turns into the maelstrom it can easily become, wave heights increase, the towing vessel and towed vessel get out of step between waves, and the bow of the towed vessel is pulled into a wave and fills with water. I suggest there are several things that must be done to prevent this. One, the towline must be attached to the towed vessel so that it rides "bow up" in the water. Attaching to a bow cleat high up rather than the bow eye will increase chances the towed vessel could dive into a wave since a high up attachment tends to pull the bow of the towed vessel downward. A bow eye attachment, on the other hand, keeps the bow higher than the aft, which makes the vessel more likely to cut through waves. Two, the towline must be long enough and adjustable in length so the towing vessel and towed vessel are able to be in synch with the waves/swell. In other words, both vessels must be encountering and riding up on a wave, then riding down into a trough at the same time. If they are out of sync, that is, one is plowing into a wave while another is riding down into a trough (e.g., because the towline is too short), the chances of burying the bow are higher, as is the chance of snapping the towline, breaking an attachment point (cleat), etc. Vessels out of synch create a lot of stress on towlines. The bottom line is that there are fair weather tows and heavy weather tows. Folks need to be prepared to do both... I would avoid nylon towlines. They stretch too much and when they break all that stored energy creates a long, wet, deadly weapon. Oh, one other thing... I always keep a very sharp, serrated edge knife near the towline. I would rather cut a tow loose than follow it down to the bottom or lose manuverability during a storm by dragging about a newly created sea anchor.
Jim Morgan
Active Member
Some boats have the bow eye too low for towing (Maxum). If you can't reach it from inside of the bow seating, it is too low. We pull from a bridle hooked into the 2 forward cleats. We put the bow seating area cover on, which keeps most of the water out if the bow happens to bury into a wave. Been doing it this way for 16 years....no problem, even when we had no CR Cut and had to go around through the Maytag Straits. Getting in "sync" with the waves is tough, as most of the waves are wakes from too many boats going through a narrow place, not swells.
But for the wakes generated by the tour boats, I doubt any towed boat has ever been swamped by a wake. What I was referring to in my post are storm generated waves, often accompanied by swell in the 3-6 foot range. Like those generated during common storms even less severe than this one:
Bear in mind water weighs 8.3 pounds per gallon. Shipping just 100 gallons of water (only what a bathtub holds) instantly loads a boat with almost 850 pounds. Imagine what a single monsoon generated wave can do when it fills a boat!
capt.catfish
Active Member
I agree with much of what you said @buckin_ho and always opt for the bow eye when it is possible, both for the reasons you noted and for the fact that it is a stronger attachment point than a cleat. Keeping a sharp serrated knife on hand to cut the line in an emergency is a good idea.
I know things don't always go to plan and you might not be able to avoid getting caught in a storm while towing, but in general I don't want to be towing in nasty weather. Trying to get a vessel in step on Lake Powell would be very difficult; the waves quickly rebound off of canyon walls and result in more of a confused sea than any sort of normal wave action or swell.
Also, the stretch in nylon (or polypropylene) line is a benefit in towing for shock absorption, which is why nylon line is commonly used in the commercial marine industry for mooring lines and towlines. As you noted, snap back from a parted line is a serious concern though and is something that you and your crew should be aware of at all times. I recently saw this video that illustrates the danger very well:
That is one of the reasons that I probably oversize all my components, I don't want to have anything fail while towing.
I know things don't always go to plan and you might not be able to avoid getting caught in a storm while towing, but in general I don't want to be towing in nasty weather. Trying to get a vessel in step on Lake Powell would be very difficult; the waves quickly rebound off of canyon walls and result in more of a confused sea than any sort of normal wave action or swell.
Also, the stretch in nylon (or polypropylene) line is a benefit in towing for shock absorption, which is why nylon line is commonly used in the commercial marine industry for mooring lines and towlines. As you noted, snap back from a parted line is a serious concern though and is something that you and your crew should be aware of at all times. I recently saw this video that illustrates the danger very well:
That is one of the reasons that I probably oversize all my components, I don't want to have anything fail while towing.
I am too old to be going to Lake Powell to houseboat but here was my solution to the low bow eye. I simply made a short "cheater" line which I then looped through the railing when not in use. This made hooking up from the back deck of the houseboat very easy also. I would say never tow by a cleat. They simply are not mounted securely enough.
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