Should Dangling Rope open again?

Vote yes or no

  • Yes

    Votes: 57 70.4%

  • No

    Votes: 24 29.6%
  • Total voters
    81
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One thing that no one has mentioned, so I will.
Even with the decline of Powell boaters, we are still seeing "New to Powell" boaters. Many of which, to say it nicely, have no idea what the fuel consumption is on a boat.
Dangling Rope is a lifeline to those not familiar with the lake.
A good percentage of boats will make it to DR from either end even if you do some site seeing.
For a new Powell boater, DR could be the difference between "I hate this, never coming back" and "DR was a God send! What an awesome trip!"

Deleting DR would only limit that part of the lake to those who have travelled it before. If there is not that "lifeline" to unexpecting boaters, many probably won't venture that far.

Like it was said, it really does line right up with the "drainers" scenario. If no one goes there by boat, why do we keep it full of water?

I still hope to see the lake full again and still doing rain dances. ;)
 
It is a very good question you pose. We spent several years frequenting the south end of the lake and have now spent several years up at the north end. Since we do not have anything between Bullfrog and Rainbow Bridge (the half way point) we've always had to figure out how to manage the fuel situation. Most of our exploring up around the Escalante and San Juan has been done using our houseboat as a base station so we have been fortunate in that regard.

In my opinion the middle section of the lake is the most scenic and has the greatest number of opportunities for exploring so lack of access to that part of the lake would deny many people of some of the best parts of the lake. Selfishly, its kinda nice to have it more to ourselves.

In all our years on the lake we only utilized Dangling Rope once or twice and have survived without it. Now.....if they would put Halls Crossing back in service.... I would be terribly happy!!
 
Phillbo said:
If you can't plan your fuel, don't try to drive across the US.... It's all the same.

DR is NOT a drainer agenda!
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No one is saying it is. But the ultimate agenda sounds familiar.
Close down the amenities and they will stop coming...
That was actually read in a "drainers" article...

Just a "round-about" perspective for draining.
Why keep it open if no one visits it?

Way too familiar discussions
 
Slots-R-Us said:
It is a very good question you pose. We spent several years frequenting the south end of the lake and have now spent several years up at the north end. Since we do not have anything between Bullfrog and Rainbow Bridge (the half way point) we've always had to figure out how to manage the fuel situation. Most of our exploring up around the Escalante and San Juan has been done using our houseboat as a base station so we have been fortunate in that regard.

In my opinion the middle section of the lake is the most scenic and has the greatest number of opportunities for exploring so lack of access to that part of the lake would deny many people of some of the best parts of the lake. Selfishly, its kinda nice to have it more to ourselves.

In all our years on the lake we only utilized Dangling Rope once or twice and have survived without it. Now.....if they would put Halls Crossing back in service.... I would be terribly happy!!
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I'm honestly hoping for Hite to be put back into operation.

Perspective. lol
 
I think it is pretty selfish for some of us to talk about wanting the lake all to ourselves. It is a huge lake, and solitude can be found all over the place. Not wanting Dangling Rope because some wakeboarders are rude is a real weak argument. And not wanting Dangling Rope because it will help help more people explore the areas above Oak Creek is also selfishly directed. Similar to those arguments, the drainers want the lake, and us, to be gone so they can have Glen Canyon all to themselves. We should be welcoming new visitors to this awesome wonderland instead of thinking up ways to keep them away. A new Dangling Rope Marina should be built to serve all of us.
 
Ryan said:
No, it’s not the same. Not even close.
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Lets see... I leave the marina in my boat with a full tank, when it gets low I look for gas. I Leave town in my truck with a full tank, when it gets low i look for gas..... Sounds the same to me.
 
Jan Hertzen said:
I think it is pretty selfish for some of us to talk about wanting the lake all to ourselves. It is a huge lake, and solitude can be found all over the place. Not wanting Dangling Rope because some wakeboarders are rude is a real weak argument. And not wanting Dangling Rope because it will help help more people explore the areas above Oak Creek is also selfishly directed. Similar to those arguments, the drainers want the lake, and us, to be gone so they can have Glen Canyon all to themselves. We should be welcoming new visitors to this awesome wonderland instead of thinking up ways to keep them away. A new Dangling Rope Marina should be built to serve all of us.
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You have obviously never had your trip to the lake ruined by an idiot with a wake boat!!!.
 
Phillbo said:
Lets see... I leave the marina in my boat with a full tank, when it gets low I look for gas. I Leave town in my truck with a full tank, when it gets low i look for gas..... Sounds the same to me.
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Is this really your opinion, or are you just trolling?

Here are some of the differences between a car and a boat.

Most folks drive cars pretty much every day. National average is somewhere around 15,000 miles per year. That allows the owners to know their vehicle very well, and the range that it is capable of. Their average MPG is very consistent. Wind speed, load, speed have pretty minor impact on MPG. Every modern car has a reliable fuel gauge. It also has an odometer and trip meter you can reset after fueling. A computer that shows distance to empty, and average MPG. When you are in a city, you are pretty much always within a couple blocks, or at most miles, of a fuel station. When you are on a road trip, there are multiple ways to see how far you are from the next fuel station. Even when you are in very remote areas of the country, just about every vehicle on the road can comfortably go from point to point without worry about running out of fuel if you start full.

What about boats? Average hours on a boat seem to be around 40/year. Used 3 months a year. Often only a few weekends and one trip. Unlike cars, there is no mileage tracked, only hours. And no way to reset between fuels. MPG is wildly inconsistent, heavily impacted by wind speed, load, MPH, recreational use, etc. No gauge to show distance to empty. I've owned and rented a lot of cars. I can only think of one where the range on the bottom side of the tank was significantly different than the top. I've also owned a lot of boats. Literally EVERY one of them the bottom side of the tank drops significantly faster than the top. Not to mention that once you get to a half tank, most fuel gauges will bounce from 3/4 to 1/4. At any lake in the west, and especially Powell, the distance between marinas is substantial, very different than on land.

I could go on, but don't need to.

Most rational people would agree that there is very little in common between the two......
 
I also think that it is far from certain that the biggest impact on pressure on mid lake has to do with Dangling Rope's demise. Has anyone seen overall usage for the lake this year? I haven't, but I would bet that usage is significantly down overall. All anecdotal, but Dave has implied this is the case. On both of our trips to the lake this year (yes, small sample) we felt that overall use was down. And conversations with the fuel dock at Bullfrog (which should have more pressure with Halls closed) said it was much less busy than past years. And the on-land fuel station said the same thing when we left in September.

Also, the bane of Peto's existence are likely one of the least impacted by DR being closed. Very few are traveling from a marina to mid-lake for a day of water sports, regardless of DR status. They are using a houseboat as home base. And when the average price of a surf boat has climbed above $150,000, the surfboat owners aren't likely to be enjoying the lake from a base camp of the old steel hulled pontoons. They are almost certainly in newer houseboats with toy tanks. They have plenty of "legs" to make it from either end of the lake to the middle, play all week, and go back to their home marina.

Speaking from us personally, we usually do our "big trip" mid lake. And have been for probably the last 15 years. Only once in that time have we needed to go to DR for fuel. And that trip we really didn't have to do it, but it made me more comfortable. I'm certain that we aren't in the minority here

I won't argue that lack of DR has an impact on mid lake usage. It certainly does. But I am also confident that lower usage plays a much, much larger role. Low water, negative media attention, and $7.50/gallon fuel prices all contribute.
 
Ryan said:
I also think that it is far from certain that the biggest impact on pressure on mid lake has to do with Dangling Rope's demise. Has anyone seen overall usage for the lake this year? I haven't, but I would bet that usage is significantly down overall. All anecdotal, but Dave has implied this is the case. On both of our trips to the lake this year (yes, small sample) we felt that overall use was down. And conversations with the fuel dock at Bullfrog (which should have more pressure with Halls closed) said it was much less busy than past years. And the on-land fuel station said the same thing when we left in September.
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Well I just looked up the NPS visitation stats for GCNRA, which they're only showing through June, but yes, visitation seems to be way down this year. Just to look at June, here's what we've got:

2022 - 369,862
2021 - 555,031
2020 - 331,726 (and that was the year of the Covid lockdown)
2019 - 739,411
2018 - 874,675

You get the idea... In fact, if you discount the Covid year of 2020, the last time there were fewer visitors in June was in 2010. I'll be interested to see the stats for July through September...

And remember that DR was closed for most of 2021, including all of June...
 
JFRCalifornia said:
Well I just looked up the NPS visitation stats for GCNRA, which they're only showing through June, but yes, visitation seems to be way down this year. Just to look at June, here's what we've got:

2022 - 369,862
2021 - 555,031
2020 - 331,726 (and that was the year of the Covid lockdown)
2019 - 739,411
2018 - 874,675

You get the idea... In fact, if you discount the Covid year of 2020, the last time there were fewer visitors in June was in 2010. I'll be interested to see the stats for July through September...

And remember that DR was closed for most of 2021, including all of June...
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Thanks for the great info JFR as it does really show what the water level really is doing to the lake traffic. But the weird thing is... the year of Covid, I seen more campers, hikers, cyclists and walkers than ever before here in the middle of nowhere. What better way to isolate than truly isolate I guess. haha

In a normal year here on the North end of the lake in Hanksville, I usually have to make 6-8 tire runs a summer. We are talking 30 tires each run. This year...... I just made my second tire run of the year 2 days ago and it was only 20 tires. I am not seeing the flow I normally do.

I was told by someone here in Hanksville that the traffic at one of the local gas stations here for September is comparable to October/November last year. Businesses in these tourist towns are really feeling the hit.

Of course one can say that there is no proof that this is caused by DR closing, and they are right. But I did have one customer that specifically said they thought the lake was closed once they heard DR was closed. Needless to say, they were a little disappointed that they didn't make their summer trips to the lake once I told them it has been open all summer, just not DR.

Again, I hope they open DR again. I think it helps both ends of the lake and the people who use it
 
I strongly believe visitor counts are way low, especially on the north end. I’d love to know how they count visitors on the North End of the lake, as I rarely see anyone manning the gates to count. The last 3 years Hall’s was open I did not see the gate manned even once, though we came through 3-4 trips each year. Bullfrog the last 2 years I o my saw the gate manned 2 times, and once was on my way out. Again this is with 3-4 trips per year.

$7.50 gallon gas, yeah that probably does keep a number of people from visiting the lake
 
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