Question about trolling motors for you guys that are in the know about electricity.

[Squirrel]

Check out these batteries, very pricey, Sq

Battle Born Batteries

High-performance LiFePO4 batteries and integrated power systems, assembled in the USA and engineered for demanding environments. Proven across RV, marine, trucking, off-grid, and commercial applications.

battlebornbatteries.com

 

[Ecobatt]

There are a lot of really good options other than Battle Born....but they do make a nice battery.

 

[Squirrel]

And they are?? Sq

 

[GTH]

I'll let you know, I've been considering li-ion batteries for quite some time, so I just ordered from Battle Born 2 100ah 12volt batteries and a Victron IP67 charger (Battle Born recommendation). I have a Minn Kota Ulterra 24 volt, I put in at Halls crossing but fish mainly GHB north and even though I can charge on the water, if I camp 2 or three days, I'd like the extra assurance from every thing I've seen about li-ion batteries. Yes they are pricey.

 

[Ecobatt]

And they are?? Sq

I am a lithium battery manufacturer, so I don't feel I should take advantage of a free forum. Maybe Wayne will let me promote my products if I send him a free battery, hint hint.

But in all seriousness, LiFePo4 batteries are worth every penny for trolling and inverter applications. Once you make the leap and switch to lithium, you won't ever go back. There are several quality lithium manufacturers that will deliver a great product.

 

[Ecobatt]

I'll let you know, I've been considering li-ion batteries for quite some time, so I just ordered from Battle Born 2 100ah 12volt batteries and a Victron IP67 charger (Battle Born recommendation). I have a Minn Kota Ulterra 24 volt, I put in at Halls crossing but fish mainly GHB north and even though I can charge on the water, if I camp 2 or three days, I'd like the extra assurance from every thing I've seen about li-ion batteries. Yes they are pricey.

In my experience, going with an exact voltage lithium battery is the very best option. Ie, if you have a 24V trolling motor, buy a 24V lithium battery. Most 24V lithium trolling batterys are 50Ah, which is exactly the same reserve power as a 12V100Ah.

When you series lithium batteries together to increase the voltage (such as connecting two 12V batteries in series to get 24V), it can become a problem over time. All batteries will age differently, which changes their internal resistance. If you get any substantial differential resistance when connecting in series, you start losing overall capacity, and the whole pack suffers greatly. Basically, you are at the mercy of the worst battery in the pack. If one BMS goes down, you lose power completely. I have seen this problem way too many times, and I completely stopped recommending this setup.

A single 24V battery, or two 24V batteries in parallel is a much better option. This setup always yields the sum of both batteries, so if one battery ages quicker, or has a problem, you don't completely shut down. Each battery has a BMS to control the charge/discharge/ and safety of the pack. If you use two 24V batteries in parallel, and lose one BMS, you still have power. This creates redundancy and also increases the lifespan of the batteries.

In my experience, one single 24V50Ah lithium trolling battery will meet the needs of almost every angler. I know of many pro and ameteur anglers that have a very difficult time using up their single 24V50Ah lithium battery in one day of fishing. But if you test one battery and decide that you want another, you can always add another in parallel, no problem. The caveat is that you want to do that sooner than later. Lithium in parallel is much more tolerated than when connected in series, but it is always best to match the batteries as closely as possible. You don't want to run it for a year or two, then decide you need another one.

You can almost always get away with a single 24V50Ah battery if you also buy an alternator-to-lithium charger. Similar to the Minn Kota on the go charger. Basically, it charges the lithium trolling battery from your starter battery while you are running the big motor. It checks to make sure that the starter battery is topped off, then diverts excess alternator power to the trolling battery. For longer fishing trips, you can almost get a full charge on the trolling battery just cruising back.

Sorry for the long post, just thought I would share some of what I have learned over the years with lithium batteries and trolling motors.

 

[RatherBeFishing1]

I have a 17 foot aluminum walleye boat. A Spectrum Pro Avenger, similar to a tracker. I currently have a 12 volt Motor Guide Pro Series 46lb on there and it has served me well. I also have a 24 volt Minn-Kota Maxxum 54lb that I've had sitting in the garage as a back-up in case the one on the boat dies because trolling motors are getting EXPENSIVE and I got it cheap.
I'm somewhat new to Lake Powell and the sheer size of the place changes the game a bit for me. I'm either going to add another battery for my existing 12 volt system or I'll install the 24 volt trolley. I'm looking for endurance, not more power. The 46 pushes my boat around just fine but lacks endurance for an entire day of fishing on just a single battery.
The 24 volt has a thing called a digital maximizer or something to that affect that the 12 volt does not.
Given those trolly's, what would you do and why?

I changed to a 24volt a couple years ago. I’d never go back to a 12.
More power when needed
More control
Large increase in endurance . . I can make a 3day trip for SMB and LMB without recharging.

 

[RatherBeFishing1]

I am a lithium battery manufacturer, so I don't feel I should take advantage of a free forum. Maybe Wayne will let me promote my products if I send him a free battery, hint hint.

But in all seriousness, LiFePo4 batteries are worth every penny for trolling and inverter applications. Once you make the leap and switch to lithium, you won't ever go back. There are several quality lithium manufacturers that will deliver a great product.

What brand(s) do you suggest

 

[Coho975]

In my experience, going with an exact voltage lithium battery is the very best option. Ie, if you have a 24V trolling motor, buy a 24V lithium battery. Most 24V lithium trolling batterys are 50Ah, which is exactly the same reserve power as a 12V100Ah.

When you series lithium batteries together to increase the voltage (such as connecting two 12V batteries in series to get 24V), it can become a problem over time. All batteries will age differently, which changes their internal resistance. If you get any substantial differential resistance when connecting in series, you start losing overall capacity, and the whole pack suffers greatly. Basically, you are at the mercy of the worst battery in the pack. If one BMS goes down, you lose power completely. I have seen this problem way too many times, and I completely stopped recommending this setup.

A single 24V battery, or two 24V batteries in parallel is a much better option. This setup always yields the sum of both batteries, so if one battery ages quicker, or has a problem, you don't completely shut down. Each battery has a BMS to control the charge/discharge/ and safety of the pack. If you use two 24V batteries in parallel, and lose one BMS, you still have power. This creates redundancy and also increases the lifespan of the batteries.

In my experience, one single 24V50Ah lithium trolling battery will meet the needs of almost every angler. I know of many pro and ameteur anglers that have a very difficult time using up their single 24V50Ah lithium battery in one day of fishing. But if you test one battery and decide that you want another, you can always add another in parallel, no problem. The caveat is that you want to do that sooner than later. Lithium in parallel is much more tolerated than when connected in series, but it is always best to match the batteries as closely as possible. You don't want to run it for a year or two, then decide you need another one.

You can almost always get away with a single 24V50Ah battery if you also buy an alternator-to-lithium charger. Similar to the Minn Kota on the go charger. Basically, it charges the lithium trolling battery from your starter battery while you are running the big motor. It checks to make sure that the starter battery is topped off, then diverts excess alternator power to the trolling battery. For longer fishing trips, you can almost get a full charge on the trolling battery just cruising back.

Sorry for the long post, just thought I would share some of what I have learned over the years with lithium batteries and trolling motors

Where would you suggest looking for a site to research setting your boat up with 24 VDC lithium, onboard charger, and alternator to lithium charger. I would like to see some prices as well as wiring diagrams and requirements. They seem like the way to go, and I could dump 100 lbs off my boat. Thanks.

 

[wayne gustaveson]

I am a lithium battery manufacturer, so I don't feel I should take advantage of a free forum. Maybe Wayne will let me promote my products if I send him a free battery, hint hint.

But in all seriousness, LiFePo4 batteries are worth every penny for trolling and inverter applications. Once you make the leap and switch to lithium, you won't ever go back. There are several quality lithium manufacturers that will deliver a great product.

Keep giving us your expert battery intuition. It is much appreciated. (No free battery needed)

 

[Dungee]

In my experience, going with an exact voltage lithium battery is the very best option. Ie, if you have a 24V trolling motor, buy a 24V lithium battery. Most 24V lithium trolling batterys are 50Ah, which is exactly the same reserve power as a 12V100Ah.

When you series lithium batteries together to increase the voltage (such as connecting two 12V batteries in series to get 24V), it can become a problem over time. All batteries will age differently, which changes their internal resistance. If you get any substantial differential resistance when connecting in series, you start losing overall capacity, and the whole pack suffers greatly. Basically, you are at the mercy of the worst battery in the pack. If one BMS goes down, you lose power completely. I have seen this problem way too many times, and I completely stopped recommending this setup.

A single 24V battery, or two 24V batteries in parallel is a much better option. This setup always yields the sum of both batteries, so if one battery ages quicker, or has a problem, you don't completely shut down. Each battery has a BMS to control the charge/discharge/ and safety of the pack. If you use two 24V batteries in parallel, and lose one BMS, you still have power. This creates redundancy and also increases the lifespan of the batteries.

In my experience, one single 24V50Ah lithium trolling battery will meet the needs of almost every angler. I know of many pro and ameteur anglers that have a very difficult time using up their single 24V50Ah lithium battery in one day of fishing. But if you test one battery and decide that you want another, you can always add another in parallel, no problem. The caveat is that you want to do that sooner than later. Lithium in parallel is much more tolerated than when connected in series, but it is always best to match the batteries as closely as possible. You don't want to run it for a year or two, then decide you need another one.

You can almost always get away with a single 24V50Ah battery if you also buy an alternator-to-lithium charger. Similar to the Minn Kota on the go charger. Basically, it charges the lithium trolling battery from your starter battery while you are running the big motor. It checks to make sure that the starter battery is topped off, then diverts excess alternator power to the trolling battery. For longer fishing trips, you can almost get a full charge on the trolling battery just cruising back.

Sorry for the long post, just thought I would share some of what I have learned over the years with lithium batteries and trolling motors.

Where to start then? I have a 24 volt set up for our trolling motor, two 12 volt batteries in tandem. How easy is the exchange? Will the same connections be appropriate for a single 24 volt lithium? Or two 24 volt lithiums then tandem together? Will my existing Minn Kota charger work on the lithium, or do I need a lithium charger? Do I need to swap all my current three batteries for lithium at the same time or would either my minn kota charger or the a new lithium charger work on both kinds of batteries? I don't think I could afford to swap all three batteries in my boat for lithium at the same time until I sold my kidney, so my process of switching would be, well, a process.

 

[Dorado]

Where to start then? I have a 24 volt set up for our trolling motor, two 12 volt batteries in tandem. How easy is the exchange? Will the same connections be appropriate for a single 24 volt lithium? Or two 24 volt lithiums then tandem together? Will my existing Minn Kota charger work on the lithium, or do I need a lithium charger? Do I need to swap all my current three batteries for lithium at the same time or would either my minn kota charger or the a new lithium charger work on both kinds of batteries? I don't think I could afford to swap all three batteries in my boat for lithium at the same time until I sold my kidney, so my process of switching would take a process.

Excellent questions, I was wondering the same thing regarding the batter chargers: Will the lead/acid battery charger systems work?

 

[SeaLegs]

Excellent questions, I was wondering the same thing regarding the batter chargers: Will the lead/acid battery charger systems work?

How To Charge Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) Batteries

Find out how to safely charge LiFePO4 batteries for maximum performance and lifespan. Take control of your energy use with reliable storage solutions.

www.power-sonic.com

 

[Squirrel]

I just received an email from Battle Born confirming that the Minn Kota MK DC 2 on board charger is an acceptable charger for the 12v LiFePO4 batteries. Wouldn't you need a 24v charger for the 24v battery? Sq

 

[Ecobatt]

Where to start then? I have a 24 volt set up for our trolling motor, two 12 volt batteries in tandem. How easy is the exchange? Will the same connections be appropriate for a single 24 volt lithium? Or two 24 volt lithiums then tandem together? Will my existing Minn Kota charger work on the lithium, or do I need a lithium charger? Do I need to swap all my current three batteries for lithium at the same time or would either my minn kota charger or the a new lithium charger work on both kinds of batteries? I don't think I could afford to swap all three batteries in my boat for lithium at the same time until I sold my kidney, so my process of switching would be, well, a process.

Sorry for going MIA for a few days, I was out of service working on a solar project.

You don't want to change your main engine start battery to lithium. At least not at this stage of the game. Alternators don't play nice with the current drop in lithium batteries. You WILL fry the alternator if you try it. Ask me how I know....I am happy to go into technical details of why if anyone is interested.

As for cabling, if you swap to a single 24V lithium battery, you don't need to do anything except remove the jumper that connected the two batteries.

For charging, you have a couple of options.

1. Add a 24V lithium charger for the 24V trolling battery. It can be onboard mounted, or a "shelf" charger that you just set in the boat when charging. Obviously onboard is nicer, but the cost is about 2X-3X as much money, as they are designed to be waterproof, and cool without a fan.

This scenario does not charge from the alternator to the 24V lithium battery.

2. If you have (or install) an onboard 12V (single or mulit-output) charger, you can re-configure it to charge the start battery, then add a 12V lead acid-to-24V lithium charger. Connect the new 12V-24V chargers input to your lead acid start battery, then the output to the 24V lithium battery. When you plug in the 12V onboard charger, it will top off the start battery first (which normally only takes a few minutes), then it will charge the lithium battery. If you have a multi output charger, connect them ALL to the start battery in parallel. This will utilize the entire output capability of the existing onboard charger.

If your start battery is in the stern, and the trolling batteries are up front, you would have to pull a pair of 10AWG wires between them. The 12V-24V charger would mount by the start battery, then use the 10AWG wires to run to the 24V trolling battery. If you don't have room to mount the 12V-24V charger by the start battery, you would need to run a pair of 8AWG wires. This is because you are running long distance at 12V rather than 24V.

I will draw up a couple of diagrams later today when I get a second, so it is easy to understand. Hard to explain in text sometimes.

 

[210 FSH]

I have a 17 foot aluminum walleye boat. A Spectrum Pro Avenger, similar to a tracker. I currently have a 12 volt Motor Guide Pro Series 46lb on there and it has served me well. I also have a 24 volt Minn-Kota Maxxum 54lb that I've had sitting in the garage as a back-up in case the one on the boat dies because trolling motors are getting EXPENSIVE and I got it cheap.
I'm somewhat new to Lake Powell and the sheer size of the place changes the game a bit for me. I'm either going to add another battery for my existing 12 volt system or I'll install the 24 volt trolley. I'm looking for endurance, not more power. The 46 pushes my boat around just fine but lacks endurance for an entire day of fishing on just a single battery.
The 24 volt has a thing called a digital maximizer or something to that affect that the 12 volt does not.
Given those trolly's, what would you do and why?

As long as you are going to run the 12v troller, then just add another battery a double your amp hours. As a previous poster stated, the batteries have to be new so that they are matched.

Keep in mind, Watts are all that really matters. Watts are the true measure of work being done.

A given 46 pound thrust motor is going to use the same Watts whether it is 12V, 24V, or 36V. The difference is that amperage is going to go down as the voltage goes up. Watts = voltage X amperage. Yes there are some efficiencies to be gained with higher voltage, but this is DC and not AC so losses are already pretty minimal in a DC system.

One of the best ways to make sure you get the most endurance out of a given battery bank is to make sure that all of the cells are matched by using a hydrometer when you charge the batteries. After that a good quality battery charger / conditioner to make sure your batteries are fully charged.

Yes, lithium batteries have more amp hours for a given group size and weigh roughly 2/3 less. However, as another poster stated, lithium batteries do not play well with outboard alternators. Alternator battery chargers such as the MinnKota are the answer to charging a lithium battery while under way.

Having said that, why not just hook up a MinnKota alternator charger to your start battery as per the MinnKota instructions and get a charge on your trolling motor battery bank each time you are underway. The MinnKota alternator charger uses a voltage sensing relay, VSR, to make sure your start battery gets a full charge before it will start pushing any charge to your trolling motor bank. The VSR relay closes once the start battery reaches 13.6 volts, when this happens, the start battery and the trolling motor batteries are tied in parallel. Once battery voltage drops below 13.6 volts, the VSR opens and isolates the start battery. This is very similar to how my stock Yamaha battery switch works for the start and house battery. The nice thing about this type of switch is that if for some reason your start battery doesn’t have enough in it to start your motor you can use the emergency paralleling switch to bring your trolling motor battery bank into play and enable you to start your prime mover.



It appears from your post you are $$ conscious... so the least expensive and most robust system would be to just add another flooded acid battery and double your amp hours. You can buy roughly 5 deep cycle flooded lead acid batteries for the cost of one lithium battery. As stated before, lithium batteries have more amp hours and less weight for a given battery size. But, that is a lot of coin to spend on a battery if you do not really need it. You said that your 12Volt troller has served you well, the size of LP doesn‘t change how much time you have spent in the past on other lakes trolling with your 12v troller.. its just that LP is huge.

 

[210 FSH]

Sorry for going MIA for a few days, I was out of service working on a solar project.

You don't want to change your main engine start battery to lithium. At least not at this stage of the game. Alternators don't play nice with the current drop in lithium batteries. You WILL fry the alternator if you try it. Ask me how I know....I am happy to go into technical details of why if anyone is interested.

As for cabling, if you swap to a single 24V lithium battery, you don't need to do anything except remove the jumper that connected the two batteries.

For charging, you have a couple of options.

1. Add a 24V lithium charger for the 24V trolling battery. It can be onboard mounted, or a "shelf" charger that you just set in the boat when charging. Obviously onboard is nicer, but the cost is about 2X-3X as much money, as they are designed to be waterproof, and cool without a fan.

This scenario does not charge from the alternator to the 24V lithium battery.

2. If you have (or install) an onboard 12V (single or mulit-output) charger, you can re-configure it to charge the start battery, then add a 12V lead acid-to-24V lithium charger. Connect the new 12V-24V chargers input to your lead acid start battery, then the output to the 24V lithium battery. When you plug in the 12V onboard charger, it will top off the start battery first (which normally only takes a few minutes), then it will charge the lithium battery. If you have a multi output charger, connect them ALL to the start battery in parallel. This will utilize the entire output capability of the existing onboard charger.

If your start battery is in the stern, and the trolling batteries are up front, you would have to pull a pair of 10AWG wires between them. The 12V-24V charger would mount by the start battery, then use the 10AWG wires to run to the 24V trolling battery. If you don't have room to mount the 12V-24V charger by the start battery, you would need to run a pair of 8AWG wires. This is because you are running long distance at 12V rather than 24V.

I will draw up a couple of diagrams later today when I get a second, so it is easy to understand. Hard to explain in text sometimes.

Thanks !
Great post!!!!

 

[Ecobatt]

I just received an email from Battle Born confirming that the Minn Kota MK DC 2 on board charger is an acceptable charger for the 12v LiFePO4 batteries. Wouldn't you need a 24v charger for the 24v battery? Sq

Yes, if you choose a 24V lithium battery, you will need a 24V lithium charger. Whether it be an 12VDC-24VDC charger, or a 120VAC - 24VDC charger, both work great.

Here is my .02 on using a standard battery charger with lithium...

Will it work? Sort of. Sometimes. Maybe.

Lead acid chargers generally do not harm LiFePo4 batteries, and is why many lithium battery manufacturers say they will work. However, depending on their programmed algorithms, they may not charge as well as you would like. A fully charged resting LiFePo4 battery is around 13.7V, whereas a fully charged resting lead acid battery is around 12.8V.

Now take a LiFePo4 battery that is approx 50% SOC (state of charge), which equates to about 12.8V. Most lead acid chargers power on, look at the battery voltage, and make a determination if the battery needs to be bulk charged. From my experience, most lead acid chargers won't immediately kick into bulk charge unless the power on voltage is less than approx 12.6V-12.8V. On a LiFePo4 battery, 12.6V is about 20%-25% SOC. So the charger may initiate float mode, which provides minimal charge current. The LiFePo4 battery then takes FOREVER to fully charge, often times many days.

There are some lead acid chargers that work decently, but it is really hit or miss. Take for example a Magnum inverter on a houseboat. Unless the voltage is less than 12.6V it absolutely will not initiate a bulk charge. So unless you are on the very bottom of a lithium battery, it will immediately go to float, and will take many days to charge. I know that scenario doesn't involve a trolling charger, merely an example of how many of the lead acid chargers are programmed.

Another problem with "drop in ready" lithium batteries, is that many lead acid chargers will bulk charge at 14.6V, which is the absolute max that you can charge lithium. Almost all lithium BMS's will watch individual cell voltages, and cut off the batteries input terminals to protect the cells from being undercharged or overcharged. But what happens in MOST of the lithium batteries on the market, is that one cell (out of the 4) will have a slightly different internal resistance, and will "run" out ahead of the rest. So when charging at 14.6V, one cell will most likely charge faster than the rest, and will exceed 14.6V, and triggers the high voltage disconnect. This disconnect can cause a battery charger to error out, which needs an unplug or a reset to remedy. So many times in this scenario, the rest of the cells don't get fully charged. I have found that some brands of lithium can only be charged to 14.2V so as not to trigger a disconnect. Keep in mind however, that 14.2V is about 95% SOC, so that is not a problem.

Again, sorry for long posts, but I honestly believe that any company that tells you that their lithium battery is "drop in" is lying to you. I would love to sell more batteries by saying that you can just swap out to lithium, but I know better from experience.

 

[Ecobatt]

12 volt 46lb. or 24 volt 54 lb.
This entire thread is very interesting to me.
Keep the advice coming.

If the thrust is the same, but the difference is 12V to 24V, the watts are the same. So take a 12V motor with 55 lbs of thrust. Let's assume that it pulls 720W at full throttle, or 60A @12VDC. Now if you have two 12V batteries in parallel, it SHOULD pull equally from them(in reality it doesn't. But for this example let's assume they do). So each battery sees a load of 360W which is 30A @12VDC.

Now take a 24V motor with 55 lbs of thrust, and at full throttle also pulls 720W at full throttle, or 30A @24VDC. Split those equally between the batteries, and you have each battery again seeing a 360W load, which is 30A @12VDC. So in both setups, the batteries individual load is identical. The difference in efficiency comes from the higher voltage cable run from the batteries to the motor, and also the higher efficiency of the motor itself. Since the motor is inherently more efficient, and you have less losses from heat, so the batteries last marginally longer.

Now here is where lithium shines. As someone stated above, watts are the true measure of work being done. Agreed 100%. However, Peukert's law changes things drastically for a lead acid battery. Peukert's law basically says, that as the amperage goes up, the amp hours(capacity) of a lead acid battery goes down. So going to a lead acid 24V setup is definitely going to help, but not anywhere close to how much more a lithium battery will help. Here is why:

I will use a cars MPG rating as the analogy. Cars are rated for MPG, which is measured on a flat road, at a nominal speed, of say 55 MPH. Let's use round numbers and say that a car is EPA rated at 20 MPG. Go on the freeway at 75 MPH, you will get less, probably in the 16-17 MPG range. Stop and start traffic will drop it further, in the 12-13 range. Pulling a trailer up a hill? Now you will probably get 6-7 MPG. This is exactly how a lead acid battery works.

Take a 12V trolling motor with a 12V 100Ah flooded lead acid battery. The 100Ah rating printed on it is almost always the 20 hour rate. That means that if you discharged the battery at 5A for 20 hours, the battery will be depleted. However, that same battery at a 5 hour rate (20A) is now rated as a 47Ah battery. All we did was increase the amps to 20, and it lost over 50% of its overall capacity. A 12V trolling motor is going to pull anywhere from 20A-60A, which on a single battery will absolutely demolish the Ah rating. Adding a second battery in parallel will help quite a bit, as it doubles the Ah rating, and cuts the amps in half. But it isn't the magic bullet.

Now let's take a lithium 12V 100Ah battery, and go back to the MPG scenario. A high quality, well built LiFePo4 battery will have almost no Peukert effect. So whether going 55MPH, 75MPH, or pulling a trailer, it will always get at or near the 100Ah rating. Lead acid batteries Peukert value will vary from 1.2-1.4 depending on the brand and quality of the battery. AGM's are significantly better, and range from 1.1-1.2. A good LiFePo4 battery will have a value of 1.01-1.05 which drastically cuts the losses. In a nutshell, with lithium, you always get the Ah that you pay for. With lead acid, it depends greatly on the amp load.

Here is the math:

1X 12V100Ah lead acid battery @20A motor load =47Ah @ 12V or 564 watt/hr reserve (1.25 Peukert value)
2X 12V100Ah lead acid battery in parallel @20A motor load = 95Ah @12V or 1140 watt/hr reserve (1.25 Peukert value)

1X 24V50Ah lithium battery @20A motor load =47Ah @24V or 1128 watt/hr reserve (1.02 Peukert value)

It's a lot of tech to soak in, but the bottom line is that lithium will outperform an equal Ah lead acid battery by 2X or more. I have done a ton of tests and real world comparisons, so I know this for a fact.

The best short term value may be 2X lead acid batteries. However, when you factor in the maintenance, 1/4 of the weight, faster charging, no acid, no corrosion, lasts 7+ years, lithium easily wins.

 

[210 FSH]

Yes, if you choose a 24V lithium battery, you will need a 24V lithium charger. Whether it be an 12VDC-24VDC charger, or a 120VAC - 24VDC charger, both work great.

Here is my .02 on using a standard battery charger with lithium...

Will it work? Sort of. Sometimes. Maybe.

Lead acid chargers generally do not harm LiFePo4 batteries, and is why many lithium battery manufacturers say they will work. However, depending on their programmed algorithms, they may not charge as well as you would like. A fully charged resting LiFePo4 battery is around 13.7V, whereas a fully charged resting lead acid battery is around 12.8V.

Now take a LiFePo4 battery that is approx 50% SOC (state of charge), which equates to about 12.8V. Most lead acid chargers power on, look at the battery voltage, and make a determination if the battery needs to be bulk charged. From my experience, most lead acid chargers won't immediately kick into bulk charge unless the power on voltage is less than approx 12.6V-12.8V. On a LiFePo4 battery, 12.6V is about 20%-25% SOC. So the charger may initiate float mode, which provides minimal charge current. The LiFePo4 battery then takes FOREVER to fully charge, often times many days.

There are some lead acid chargers that work decently, but it is really hit or miss. Take for example a Magnum inverter on a houseboat. Unless the voltage is less than 12.6V it absolutely will not initiate a bulk charge. So unless you are on the very bottom of a lithium battery, it will immediately go to float, and will take many days to charge. I know that scenario doesn't involve a trolling charger, merely an example of how many of the lead acid chargers are programmed.

Another problem with "drop in ready" lithium batteries, is that many lead acid chargers will bulk charge at 14.6V, which is the absolute max that you can charge lithium. Almost all lithium BMS's will watch individual cell voltages, and cut off the batteries input terminals to protect the cells from being undercharged or overcharged. But what happens in MOST of the lithium batteries on the market, is that one cell (out of the 4) will have a slightly different internal resistance, and will "run" out ahead of the rest. So when charging at 14.6V, one cell will most likely charge faster than the rest, and will exceed 14.6V, and triggers the high voltage disconnect. This disconnect can cause a battery charger to error out, which needs an unplug or a reset to remedy. So many times in this scenario, the rest of the cells don't get fully charged. I have found that some brands of lithium can only be charged to 14.2V so as not to trigger a disconnect. Keep in mind however, that 14.2V is about 95% SOC, so that is not a problem.

Again, sorry for long posts, but I honestly believe that any company that tells you that their lithium battery is "drop in" is lying to you. I would love to sell more batteries by saying that you can just swap out to lithium, but I know better from experience.

No apology necessary! That’s some great info!

While it’s on a smaller scale... I replaced my dirt bikes battery with an AntiGravity LiFe battery a few years ago. That LiFe battery has 9ah compared to the stock lead acids 6ah battery, and 230CC compared to the stock batterys 130CC. My dirt bike is all electric, no kick starter, the LiFe battery made a huge difference in how it starts up, especially the first time of the day.

My bike has a 3 phase AC stator type of alternator that uses a remote modular regulator / rectifier that looks very similar to the regulator/ rectifier my Yamaha 210 FSH uses. Does that type of charging system play better with the Lithium type of batteries? The AntiGravity battery seems to get charged well off of my bikes system. I have checked the voltage on my bike and under initial charge it is 14.7 volts and normal running it’s right around 14.5V.