National Park Service is Incompetent! - They are going to get someone killed!

[Rivergoer]

October 2022 - Encountered on a hike up the back of Iceberg


May 2023 - 1/4 mile inside Llewellyn Gulch


October 2024 - Escalante, on the big sandy beach just below Black’s Trail


The bar is now so low we’re just grateful there’s no government shutdown or pandemic to close things down…we’ll take whatever we can get these days

 

[Marina Bum]

To be clear I enjoy Bart as a fellow wordling and as a moderator and I am grateful for all of the hard work and heavy lifting that he does. Just to clarify I was not inferring he was overzealous in defense of Park Service or any other topic.

I thought of taking my comment about over policing by some down but sometimes it feels like a couple of subjects are almost off limits to certain moderators. I think if a thread does not violate the community rules and standards that no applicable subject should be forbidden and by and large thats how this page is ran.

Of course Wayne would be the ultimate arbiter of that decision, this is his forum and he gets to decide because after all freedom of the press is limited to those who own one. I’ve never known him to shut down a post either during my five years or so here.

I’m not saying it’s a freedom of speech issue because this is a privately owned page, I get it. But when a moderator jumps in to police and shut down discussion of their pet topics It feels kinda like watching an over officiated NBA Finals game where it kills the fun and you’re pretty sure the ref has a favorite. That leads to the refrain, Just let them play.

For me open, honest, serious and well informed discussion is what sets Wayne's Words apart. If we want to talk about Park Service or discuss the impacts of Surf Boats you should just let us play.

 

[Rainbowbridge]

To be clear I enjoy Bart as a fellow wordling and as a moderator and I am grateful for all of the hard work and heavy lifting that he does. Just to clarify I was not inferring he was overzealous in defense of Park Service or any other topic.

I thought of taking my comment about over policing by some down but sometimes it feels like a couple of subjects are almost off limits to certain moderators. I think if a thread does not violate the community rules and standards that no applicable subject should be forbidden and by and large thats how this page is ran.

Of course Wayne would be the ultimate arbiter of that decision, this is his forum and he gets to decide because after all freedom of the press is limited to those who own one. I’ve never known him to shut down a post either during my five years or so here.

I’m not saying it’s a freedom of speech issue because this is a privately owned page, I get it. But when a moderator jumps in to police and shut down discussion of their pet topics It feels kinda like watching an over officiated NBA Finals game where it kills the fun and you’re pretty sure the ref has a favorite. That leads to the refrain, Just let them play.

For me open, honest, serious and well informed discussion is what sets Wayne's Words apart. If we want to talk about Park Service or discuss the impacts of Surf Boats you should just let us play.

Not to worry, Marina Bum.....this post will stay providing you don't mention how surf/wake boats ruin folks hard earned vacations, cause property damage and sometimes injure and kill children......

THAT gets your posts cancelled and threads shut down.....

 

[Sighthound]

What Outside said. Apologies in advance but is it not a bit provincial (?) to not see the deficiencies at Powell as a reflection of what is occurring across all (waves arm broadly) of our national parks? Every major news outlet (WaPo, NYT, Bloomberg, WSJ...) have run articles recently documenting the diversion of funds, the maintenance deferred, the hazards emerging/safety issues, the degradation consequent heavy attendance that they don't have the man/womanpower to supervise? The public seems to love their national parks (attendance since C19 has been off the charts) but somehow the funding to support them never seems to be there, or is diverted away from maintaining them. Yosemite, Grand Canyon, Arches, Joshua Tree .... are all sharing this experience. What must it be like to work to protect, conserve, manage these extraordinary places and shepherd the public's access to them without adequate resources to accomplish those goals and know that the chances of it getting better anytime soon are poor. Add in an often surly public and truth to tell, I might be leaning on the hood of my truck, scrolling my phone, too. Believe me, I have no fuzzy warm feelings for the Ranger - arms crossed standing on the dock - who watched me struggle to exit a kayak uphill onto a 14" shelf (the only place I was allowed to launch and retrieve). No doubt he was amused by the performance, but the language was clear: "at your own risk". Given current circumstances, the admonishment at your own risk has never had more import.

 

[VikingRanch]

The green bouy for the corner at Oak Bay has been floating against the East canyon wall for three years now. I know the mid lake is quiet, but not replacing the bouy for that long?!? We got the Oak toilets unclogged with a stick and buckets of water, who knows how long the pump has been down.

 

[Ryan]

Nate Carlisle from FOX in SLC has done stories about NPS and Aramark in the past.

It would be more impactful to try to get him involved.

[email protected]

 

[Dungee]

While that cable is unfortunate, its not unexpected. I think anyone going to any of these beloved places (our parks) needs to be aware of the current shortcomings and take a much greater responsibility for their own actions and safety. I'm actually always quite surprised there are not many, many MORE accidents and even deaths.

Now, should there be a standard we expect for basic service and cleanliness? Absolutely, and I don't think anyone would argue with healthy dialogue and even airing of grievances is a bad thing. We should disagree on things, that is where solutions usually lay. But I don't think Bart letting any and every thread get loose is going to fix that raw water hose @Marina Bum

 

[Marina Bum]

While that cable is unfortunate, its not unexpected. I think anyone going to any of these beloved places (our parks) needs to be aware of the current shortcomings and take a much greater responsibility for their own actions and safety. I'm actually always quite surprised there are not many, many MORE accidents and even deaths.

Now, should there be a standard we expect for basic service and cleanliness? Absolutely, and I don't think anyone would argue with healthy dialogue and even airing of grievances is a bad thing. We should disagree on things, that is where solutions usually lay. But I don't think Bart letting any and every thread get loose is going to fix that raw water hose @Marina Bum

It’s not Bart, there is a long history of criticism of PS, especially if ours valid getting shut down quickly. Also criticism of Surfboat impacts especially if you mention regulation of them in any way. Not sure if that moderator works with or for Park Service or if they have stock in a Surf Boat company but a lot of us have taken notice.

My gripe with increased fees and the crappy state of the potty docks is an old one; PS made up a way to raise fees and sent the money elsewhere. I’d just like to see the pump outs maintained. To me a different issue than having a thread shut down over and over because it’s someone’s sacred cow.

 

[Ryan]

To the best of my knowledge, the increased fee for the boat pass was sold as a way to raise funds for low water access and the fees were going to stay at GCNRA. Is that not the way it worked out?

 

[BartsPlace]

Wayne's Words was established to promote recreation at Lake Powell (originally fishing and gradually expanded to most lake-related activities). Coming on the site to bash / gripe / vent about whatever issue you have does not match the mission of the site. You're welcome to explore those topics elsewhere. I had let this thread move forward (as I have many others) in hopes that there might be something constructive. However, like almost every other instance, that has not happened. Worse, perhaps, is that by letting it go on, the conversation somehow turned away from NPS and onto the moderators - who have stayed clear of this thread (until now). There are no "pet" topics or "sacred cows" - just a desire to stay true to the original purpose of the site and the instructions received from it's namesake.

If you have a problem with NPS, tell them. Problem with Aramark, tell them. If you have an issue with wake/surf boats, take some action. Spouting off about it here will not accomplish tangible results.

 

[nzaugg]

I found the buoy for Mile 106 in a cove around Mile 110. Seemed like a long way for it to float. However, it seems like a never ending task to keep those buoys in place and at the right depth. I have no idea how they do it.

 

[Ryan]

I have to chuckle at this.

 

[ctrldata]

NPS staffing is down 22% since early 2025, total operating budget for NPS cut by 1.1 billion in real dollars not adjusted
According to the NPS website they spent

It should go to zero percent because its not , and we should put management out for bid to the private sector. Aramark does a terrible job because they have a monopoly and they are 'managed' by a government agency. If they charged 0.25 cent per gal on fuel sold on the lake, powell could have a full time clean up crew

NPS needs to pack it up and go home. They provide no value to the lake. Lots of boats, trucks etc parked.in NPS lots and slips never move for any reason. Boaters are on their own. Safety is not a word in their vocabulary. Powell is and always been a dangerous place. As water falls channel marks are a necessity. Had boats here since 1964 and still don’t take Powell for granted.

I read on the National Park Service website that they spent $10 million for a new dock at Wahweep. $81 million to extend the launch ramp at antelope Point Marina, a private Marina run by the Navajo, why are we sending tax dollars on that? And who thought $91 million for a dock and a privately controlled launch ramp make any sense? And millions more to study putting a floating fuel dock mid-lake. Study what? Such a joke. Its all laden with fraud.

When we were out at the lake, we saw not just one, but two massive houseboats that either sank or were partially sunken. For three days diesel fuel was everywhere along the shoreline where one of the boats went down. No absorbent boom was dropped in the water, not even a buoy or signage along beaches to warn boaters. How do you guys feel about that? They didn't even bother to send someone to pickup the floating debris field that as of writing this is still on the shoreline. I pull trash out of the lake anytime we see it, but full sofas from sunken houseboats is not something I'm going to do, especially when they are coated in fuel and other chemicals from the sinking boat.

The houseboat that was half sunken, we spoke to the owner and he said he spend 4 weeks trying to get a permit to salvage his boat, a permit? Guy's, I'm not making this up. Because NPS wanted paperwork, a huge houseboat sat festering 1/2 underwater with who knows what leaking out. You cant make this stuff up. I'll post a FOIA request to the NPS to see what that was all about.

NPS for Glen Canyon needs competent management, not more money. Who agrees?

 

[BartsPlace]

Perhaps I should have just locked the thread after my last post...