In lieu of Castle Rock Cut...

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T.Kidd,
That Navajo marina was at Piute Farms bay about 15 miles above Zahn. I've launched at Piute Farms a number of times to fish the Upper SJ. We would go down as far as Zahn and Spencers Camp while fishing. The minimum lake level for that old ramp at Piute Farms 3685'...long time ago. You are right that marina washed out from a huge flood but the ramp remained and was usable even after they removed the pavement from the surface. Chuck
 
cfulton said:
T.Kidd,
That Navajo marina was at Piute Farms bay about 15 miles above Zahn. I've launched at Piute Farms a number of times to fish the Upper SJ. We would go down as far as Zahn and Spencers Camp while fishing. The minimum lake level for that old ramp at Piute Farms 3685'...long time ago. You are right that marina washed out from a huge flood but the ramp remained and was usable even after they removed the pavement from the surface.
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Back in the mid 90s I would have repair calls in Zahn. Originated from Wahweap. What a run. Can't even imagine Paiute Farms.
 
Gem Morris said:
Before reading further remember I’m a big idea guy (I’m the one who proposed piping Snake River water into the Colorado River basin a few weeks ago)

Warm Creek Bay is 14 miles (by dirt road) from Big Water.

I wish “they” would have spent all the money wasted on the Castle Rock Cut developing a road into and a launch ramp at Warm Creek Bay.

JFR California (or anyone) shoot holes in that one 😀

I just came back thru the Maytag Straits yesterday at 6pm and it was MISERABLE (in APRIL no less!!!)
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The idea of a Warm Creek Bay launch ramp is interesting, and not completely far-fetched, but not without a lot of challenges. First thing to remember is that when they were building the dam, they made boaters coming down the Colorado take out at Kane Creek off of what eventually became Padre Bay, so the idea of a long drive towing a boat on a dirt road in the lower end of Glen Canyon has been done...

But so what, right? That was before the lake.

Well, my only point there is that a little imagination makes a lot of "impossible" things possible.

Now let's talk about Wahweap for a second. The big locational advantage of Wahweap for a launch ramp (and a marina) when it was built was that it was near Page (and a major highway), plus the site of the marina and launch ramp actually slopes downward to relatively deep water pretty fast. That's why they built it where it is. Now that said, nobody anticipated there would one day be another marina at Antelope Point that would create the boat congestion that has resulted in the Maytag stretch up to the Warm Creek entrance (and even up to Gunsight), especially when the Castle Rock Cut is closed (another thing that few imagined would happen as much as it does).

And to add to that, the entrance to Wahweap Bay one day may not be much of an entrance anymore. If the lake dropped to somewhere between 3530 and 3540, the rock obstacles at the entrance may make it hard to even get out of Wahweap Bay for larger boats.

So there's good reason to consider alternatives to Wahweap in the future.

The obvious solution is to keep digging the Cut deeper, and maybe that's the answer.

But what about Warm Creek? Well, first of all, you'd need to improve 14 miles of dirt road to make it usable for most people. Not impossible, but expensive and creates a big long-term maintenance issue. Then there's the question of where to put a launch ramp (let alone a marina). The problem in Warm Creek is the very shallow gradient. It doesn't take much change in the level of the lake to move the shoreline horizontally quite a bit. It gets a little less drastic once you move closer to Castle Rock down Warm Creek Bay, but the difference in where the shoreline is located when the lake is between 3700 and 3600 is anywhere from 500 to 2000 horizontal feet. The horizontal difference between 3650 and 3580 is similar. In other words, wherever you'd build a launch ramp (or marina) would not be a permanent location. And that's a very expensive logistical challenge, and doesn't make for reliable (predictable) launching at Warm Creek.

So it still seems to me the in order to keep a south end launch option viable (other than anything near Antelope Point than might be done), the Cut has to stay part of the solution... it's just a question of how expensive and feasible continued deepening of the Cut will become in the future...
 
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Congress passed a $1.7 trillion covid economic rescue plan (93% pork). That money would have paid for NAWAPA a plan that would take water from the east and pipe it to the west. It would have put a lot of people to work, relieved flooding, produced power and eased the drought.
www.buzzfeednews.com

The Abandoned Plan That Could Have Saved America From Drought

The North American Water and Power Alliance was an audacious proposal to divert water to parched western states that would have cost hundreds of billions of dollars and pissed off Canada. But what if it had worked?
www.buzzfeednews.com www.buzzfeednews.com
 
The Climate Prediction Center is saying there is a 40% chance of above average rainfall during the monsoon season. That is the optimistic view. The pessimistic view says there is a 60% chance it will be normal or below normal. In the meantime the lake is still falling. Green River is at 990 cfs and will fall to 890 cfs on 4-16-21 then start climbing to 1200 cfs about 4-20-21. That is as far out as the chart goes right now.
 
cfulton said:
T.Kidd,
That Navajo marina was at Piute Farms bay about 15 miles above Zahn. I've launched at Piute Farms a number of times to fish the Upper SJ. We would go down as far as Zahn and Spencers Camp while fishing. The minimum lake level for that old ramp at Piute Farms 3685'...long time ago. You are right that marina washed out from a huge flood but the ramp remained and was usable even after they removed the pavement from the surface. Chuck
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thanks, hard to imagine now isn't it !
 
JTJ said:
Congress passed a $1.7 trillion covid economic rescue plan (93% pork). That money would have paid for NAWAPA a plan that would take water from the east and pipe it to the west. It would have put a lot of people to work, relieved flooding, produced power and eased the drought.
www.buzzfeednews.com

The Abandoned Plan That Could Have Saved America From Drought

The North American Water and Power Alliance was an audacious proposal to divert water to parched western states that would have cost hundreds of billions of dollars and pissed off Canada. But what if it had worked?
www.buzzfeednews.com www.buzzfeednews.com
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that was a great read. with the explosive growth in the southwest and the cavalier approach of water management there are going to be some tough times, and sooner than later. when the wife and I were in Australia a couple years back when you go into a restaurant you practically have to beg for a 10 0z. glass of water. no ice, good luck with a refill.they had an extreme drought and implemented some great water policy. and don't forget major cities are coastal with desalinization plants. such a shame matters of importance are political hot potatoes no-one wants to handle.
history does repeat , remember Niro in Rome?
 
instead of excavating why not build a boat escalator/mover? if they can build a people mover in an airport they can build a boat mover.

or build locks at each end and fill 'er up with water and lift boats up, go across and then back down. locks in canals are not that uncommon and that technology exists.

as for boat ramps off the end of a cliff. that's just some pilings and steel welding. not impossible just unlikely.

the other thing to do could be to build a wheel that you can put your boat in a slot and have it rotate the boat down to the water. at the upper end at the same time you get another boat or whatever it takes to mostly balance the weight and then let it move another notch... proper gearing and brakes could let a single boat go, but of course it is much easier when things are more balanced.

just thinking along... :)

of course the biggest and cheapest thing right now is to hope for rains this week, and the next month or two. maybe some big rains this summer too. get some real gullywashers and get Momma Nature's Freak on...
 
Squirrel said:
We can’t even get them to fix the Webcams and you want a boat mover? Sq
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if a mover don't move you get a bigger hammer until it does. webcam, biggest hammer is lightning... i.e. mechanical and big things are easier to understand and fix because you can see what is broken and there is not funny stuff about where and what needs to be changed/fixed. with electrical gadgets you are too often forced to try to swap whole subsystem parts and hope you get the right one.

which is exactly what happened to me a few weeks ago. motherboard went out, or so i thought, with no easy way to test it i tried to get that replaced and only to find out it was actually the CPU that went (and perhaps also the motherboard). $600 later i have a newer computer. :)
 
I've been through the St. Lawrence Seaway locks in a houseboat, and through some strange boat moving devices on the Trent-Severn Canal (marine railway, hydraulic lift lock). Any kind of lock needs lots of water at the higher elevation, and is bound to be more expensive than just digging the channel deeper. Maybe a cheaper approach would be to install some kind of wave absorption system along the sides of the Maytag channel. Or perhaps it's time to consider a replacement for the Wahweap Marina on the south shore of the lake across from Gunsight Bay. It would be interesting to see what other reservoirs are doing to handle a 200+ foot range of water levels.
 
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