Beach bags - License to drill!

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Beach bags is a great service for some. I am not a hater of them.

That being said it does cause some issues. I think Beach Bags has done pretty good at trying to reduce the issues. But in practice it’s used as a reservation system. Not the intent but just how it works.

For pinning to stop all together they would have to require all the big boats to use beach bags and some will still need pinning. So it only makes beach bags more money and does very little to reduce the pin holes.

Fact is pinning is happening every day and done right it’s not causing issues.

It’s no different than the impact of waves crated by boats, which do way more damage than pins could ever do. Btw I think many here still think of pinning as leaving rebar which is not how it’s done.

Once the park allowed these monster boats on the lake it created this pinning problem. Can’t really put those worms back in the can. All we can do is educate and make sure the ones that require pins are doing it correctly. By attacking anyone that mentions pins all you do is reduce the positive conversation on how to do it right.

I know many here are passionate about this and will attack me. I respect that and appreciate all the ones that care. Like any subject there is a balance and a way to make it work the best it can.

Beach bags creates conflict with fair use of a park resource and they absolutely have environmental impacts as well.

We simply can not use the lake without some negative impact on the environment. We need to be smart about how we manage that.

Mike
 
Michael Pyle said:
Beach bags is a great service for some. I am not a hater of them.

That being said it does cause some issues. I think Beach Bags has done pretty good at trying to reduce the issues. But in practice it’s used as a reservation system. Not the intent but just how it works.

For pinning to stop all together they would have to require all the big boats to use beach bags and some will still need pinning. So it only makes beach bags more money and does very little to reduce the pin holes.

Fact is pinning is happening every day and done right it’s not causing issues.

It’s no different than the impact of waves crated by boats, which do way more damage than pins could ever do. Btw I think many here still think of pinning as leaving rebar which is not how it’s done.

Once the park allowed these monster boats on the lake it created this pinning problem. Can’t really put those worms back in the can. All we can do is educate and make sure the ones that require pins are doing it correctly. By attacking anyone that mentions pins all you do is reduce the positive conversation on how to do it right.

I know many here are passionate about this and will attack me. I respect that and appreciate all the ones that care. Like any subject there is a balance and a way to make it work the best it can.

Beach bags creates conflict with fair use of a park resource and they absolutely have environmental impacts as well.

We simply can not use the lake without some negative impact on the environment. We need to be smart about how we manage that.

Mike
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I’d be curious to see how long the holes actually last near the water line in water softened sandstone. We regularly visit an off road area with red sandstone, harder than what we’re usually on at Powell, and gouges from just a few years ago are mostly gone. Especially in winter the frost just tears up the surface, 1/8 of it will just powder off first thing in the morning as it warms up. Probably not the big driver at Powell, compared to wave action on soft rock and wind.
 
faber said:
We were camped in dungeon canyon last week. Had a nice cove all to ourselves. D-Bag...i Mean beach bags rolls in, and sets up directly across from us. Didn't bother asking "hey do you mind if we set up camp right her up your butt? Next time this happens I am gonna park my boat right between the bags. These people are worse than wakeholes...and that's hard to accomplish. Hate them.
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Any pictures of what Dungeon looked like…. Heading up in a week and might save us a drive
 
VikingRanch said:
I’d be curious to see how long the holes actually last near the water line in water softened sandstone. We regularly visit an off road area with red sandstone, harder than what we’re usually on at Powell, and gouges from just a few years ago are mostly gone. Especially in winter the frost just tears up the surface, 1/8 of it will just powder off first thing in the morning as it warms up. Probably not the big driver at Powell, compared to wave action on soft rock and wind.
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The issue is that you create a point in the rock that will accumulate water and that during freeze conditions, you create a much greater potential for fracture of that rock. While the frost tearing up the surface of the sandstone is expected erosion, when you have drilled a foot or two into the sandstone, you are expediting the weathering process exponentially and could potentially lead to large boulder formation. This is a much more destructive weathering than wave action, which doesn't really do much to those surfaces where pinning is used.
 
I totally understand the concept of freezing water being able to break stone. But I have never seen any evidence of this at powell. First of all it does not deep freeze like that often.

Most of the spots that have pins being used are used often and the holes are still there. Have not seen a large crack where a pin hole was.

I think this is a good example of being concerned with something that is not happening in the real world.

Kind of like lots of people saying there are abandoned pins left all over the lake and really could only find one in all of the south end of the lake. And it was way high. Which reminds me I was going to take tools to go remove that and totally forgot. I am going down this month and will add it to my calendar.

Mike
 
Ryan said:
@Michael Pyle whether I agree with you or not, it’s good to see someone else who isn’t afraid to put on their flame suits every once in a while. And unlike some, do it in a respectful manner that invites open reasonable respectful discussion.

What do you see as “the right” way to pin?
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Thanks.

This is me swimming right by your fish lure. Hehe not catching me today. Said with bubbles.

Mike
 
So I have been on the lake long enough to remember when pinning was legal. Discussion were had with NPS about the issue and for YEARS it was considered OK to PIN below the high water mark. A few years back we were boarded by NPS because they thought we were pinning, however we were not and had to show where my anchors were. On the way to show all 4 anchors we found ~ drill 40 holes.

That's part of the problem as well, holes everywhere, why not just reuse the holes that were already there? Nope, lets drill a new one.
 
Michael Pyle said:
I totally understand the concept of freezing water being able to break stone. But I have never seen any evidence of this at powell. First of all it does not deep freeze like that often.

Most of the spots that have pins being used are used often and the holes are still there. Have not seen a large crack where a pin hole was.

I think this is a good example of being concerned with something that is not happening in the real world.

Kind of like lots of people saying there are abandoned pins left all over the lake and really could only find one in all of the south end of the lake. And it was way high. Which reminds me I was going to take tools to go remove that and totally forgot. I am going down this month and will add it to my calendar.

Mike
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Where is that?

Looks like rebar so has to be pretty old.

Edit- just to be clear this is not what I call a pin and is not what is used on large houseboats. I think this type of bar is bad and whoever put this in and left it is scum. No excuse. I hate this above picture as much if not more than most.

The modern pins are smaller than the hole they go in and are smooth. The come out and do not get stuck. They can reuse old holes as the holes are larger than the pin.

Mike
 
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Michael Pyle said:
This is me swimming right by your fish lure. Hehe not catching me today. Said with bubbles.
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Believe it or not, was a sincere question.
Michael Pyle said:
The modern pins are smaller than the hole they go in and are smooth. The come out and do not get stuck. They can reuse old holes as the holes are larger than the pin.
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And I’d assume this is the answer
 
I don't like the notion that a commercial company can effectively reserve beach with beaching bags. I'm not sure though that it's worth a confrontation on your vacation even though in principle violating their "reservation" is well within your rights. It's a big lake, life can be inconvenient when someone moves your cheese, it happens.

I don't like sounding like a hypocrite either, Who among us doesn't seed the beaches we find with decoy items spreading ourselves out as much as possible to dissuade others from camping there or from idiots parking within the swing of their vessel next to us? The difference is the bag companies are commercial and if the bags seem abandoned it's a problem. My fear is that the bag companies are too lazy or too overwhelmed to move the bags and instead prefer taking over a few spots like they own them. If they don't have to send a crew out over and over then they'd certainly have a better bottom line. Who's policing them?

As far as being territorial goes I think it also depends on the spot, I feel like you have more to say about being crowded out way up lake than you do say in Wahweap Bay. Good etiquette would dictate that you can't expect/demand solitude within sight of a marina. Powell is to much of a Zen place for me that if I find a nasty neighbor or a pesty bag company shows up I'd just rather move on but that's just me.
 
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