Bad wreck on the lake last night

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Kevin G said:
Not sure how you rely on any charts or other electronic gadgets on a lake that changes 40+ feet a year in elevation. Not every rock in the lake can be plotted into a chart.
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The main canyon of the lake doesn’t move, and for most of the lake it is very tall and very vertical, so it is easy to read on topo. So if you stay in the middle of it on the topo, you won’t hit rocks. This doesn’t work as well at the entrance to Warm Creek and Wahweap where it gets really narrow, otherwise a great system.

I do have gps tracks of the marked channel at different water levels, and they save time, but staying in the deep water always works.
 
budwon1 said:
Very good point.
In the lower lake there are several poorly placed navigation buoys and buoys without lights for nighttime (note: NPS officially denies this but photos don't lie). If you are unaware of that and just expect to rely on them, could be in for a surprise. I would never attempt night nav on this lake without a chartplotter gps. And even then, with much caution.
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The non-lite buoys are my biggest concern at night. I do flick my dock lights on every once in a while when I know I'm in the vicinity of a no-light buoy just to confirm where it is. Otherwise I just trust the GPS with slower speeds.
 
I've always used a spot light when navigating at night. Anytime I'm in unmarked or unfamiliar water I'm wakeless and sweeping the light right in front looking for hazards and back and forth at a distance searching for shoreline all the while avoiding shining any oncoming vessel.

Most of our lakes here in AZ are well marked with bouys, but Powell is not and extreme caution should be taken and only navigating with a sweeping spotlight that will reflect the channel markers at a distance of 1 mile and should never be pointed at an oncoming vessel. It is far worse being blinded on the water than it is looking into someone's bright lights while driving a vehicle. Fixed lights like light bars should never be used to navigate.
 
Jaquellan said:
We can all wonder why or how this happened, but please be kind enough not to judge before the facts are known. It’s amazing how close to the shore the channel marker is right there. Perhaps they were using that as their guide…
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I know things can happen, I hit a big metal buoy years ago, and threw my BIL out of the boat, we were very lucky I seen the buoy just before we hit it, or we would of hit it head on instead of to the side. Was joked with from several people on here and had the nick name dent for a while😂. The guy that gave me the nickname is gone now, 'Howard Oatman' but he later found out how easy it could happen, and had to replace a pontoon on his tritoon, from hitting a buoy. I never heard about it for a few years😁. I've spent countless hours on Powell, but all it took for that accident was a few seconds😬
Safe boating every one👍
 
Extremely poorly written article. Never once mentioned they were boating at night. “Leaving Halls Crossing“ makes you think they were driving on the road. Very disappointing KSL.

I know exactly what happened. He did not let his chart plotter lock onto the satellites before he took off. He thought he was on his track, but his track was inaccurate because he wasn’t communicating with the satellites. I’ve done the exact same thing. I never hit anything but I learned my lesson. Always turn your chart plotter on first thing, even before you start your engines. Make sure it’s locked on before you leave.
 
I am confused where this happened. Did he leave from Halls? Headed to BF? Is this the big point that guards the mouth of BF bay just across from the Halls buoy field?
 
Your gps has lag that you should always account the faster you go the farther off it 🤷‍♂️ I always have 2 or 3 running at night and compare them often sometimes one is way off.
 
Of course there are so many holes in this story.....and Monday morning quarterbacking is so easy......

But my first thought is...So.... he works there, he knows the lake, did he think he's an expert? What do you think? :unsure:

...... was he 'really' using a GPS?? Could 'the GPS was off' be a convenient handy useful alibi??

'Opps...not MY fault......let's sue Garmin!!!' I'm not a 'captain'.....I'm just a bus driver.......' See where this goes??

So, yes we are all beyond sorry & empathetic for everyone's pain and now long term recovery issues.....

BUT......the captain is always responsible for the safety of the craft and it's passengers.

Once we let captains shift blame....IMHO....that's a very slippery slope......

Again, so sorry for the pain and anguish of all......but didn't they trust the Captain to make sure they were safe & provide safe passage???

When you take control of a vessel, aren't you in control of the safety of the passengers?

Just MHO.......

Your Thoughts???

:unsure:


Edit: IMHO, this is an attorney's dream......well, 'wet' dream cuz it's at the lake.....on a boat.

Bill, do you know any attorneys?

😋
 
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Ryan said:
Everyone who mentions running at night following their GPS should read the article.
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Funny
I have never had a GPS, but am mounting one now. But I never trust anything but instincts running the lake at night. And will continue the old school way, as long as I run at night.
Bigcatpt said:
I am confused where this happened. Did he leave from Halls? Headed to BF? Is this the big point that guards the mouth of BF bay just across from the Halls buoy field?
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Yes it is not far from the houseboat slips, probably 3 or 400 yrds from the slips in Halls. And it is the big point close to the green channel marker.
 
bubba said:
I do night runs at powell from time to time.

Running inland water at night requires preparation, awareness and common sense.

A recent GPS track is an absolute must. When laying the track swing wide near buoys as to not be in-line for an impact on a night run - i clear buoys on the channel side by about 100 feet on every pass. With the recent low water I laid a permanent track during the week of April 12, 2023 on the buoy line from south lake to as close to hite as I could get. I also laid side canyon tracks in escalante and my other favorite areas.

I have a full glass helm with one 12” center PFD and two 9” side screens.

I have 2 remote long range spots that are aimed at 11 & 1, and I have 75k lumen light bars aimed at 12 low and 12 high. I am able to light up the canyon edge to edge, but for a safe passage you need more than a bright light.

On calm nights, especially on full moons, I set the center screen on dim with range set at 100 meters and stay right on top of the line. The other screen range is set at 1 km and the third is split screen set to instruments and FLIR inspired camera.

My massive lighting is more for spotting ducks and debris in the water and not for navigation - the GPS track represents 100% navigation with virtual zero deviation unless for debris in water - if I go off track I basically show speed to wakeless. The IR camera is short range and is not used a lot but fun to play with, it clearly shows rock temps and water temps but shows nothing subsurface. You need to calibrate the temps with 10 degree deltas or the screen is just a yellow and orange and black blur. It also gets tricky when water and rock temps are within set error ranges.

The top suggestions for night running inland waters is to have a recent GPS track. Next is to NOT get tricked into following the illuminated blinking buoys, do NOT visually go from blinking buoy to blinking buoy (not all buoys are illuminated), use the GPS track as primary like a IFR route. The reason for not driving direct to the next blinky buoy is it may not be the real next buoy and there may be land between your current position and it. NEVER lock onto a blinking buoy on inland waters unless you are 100% absolutely positive you know exactly where you are and you know exactly where the buoy is. There may be several non illuminated buoys between you and the blinking one… It is difficult to determine range to blinking buoys and elevated blinking buoys are very deceiving. Stay on track - always!

Night running powell is very peaceful, a new experience on another level, not a higher level, just another level. The only spook I have every encountered at night are the floating ducks that take flight right in front of you. Every time it happens it is a full adrenaline dump with dozens of ducks in the air illuminated by the LEDS. It is like a flash bang.

Know your limits and be prepared. I always wear a life vest at night.

If you think you are going to make it with just a spot light, you are over confident and very foolish.
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We were over there when it happened and they were left of the blinky buoy that was almost on shore. It needs repositioned back into the channel. It seems to be the first going into Bullfrog Bay.
 
Rainbowbridge said:
Of course there are so many holes in this story.....and Monday morning quarterbacking is so easy......

But my first thought is...So.... he works there, he knows the lake, did he think he's an expert? What do you think? :unsure:

...... was he 'really' using a GPS?? Could 'the GPS was off' be a convenient handy useful alibi??

'Opps...not MY fault......let's sue Garmin!!!' I'm not a 'captain'.....I'm just a bus driver.......' See where this goes??

So, yes we are all beyond sorry & empathetic for everyone's pain and now long term recovery issues.....

BUT......the captain is always responsible for the safety of the craft and it's passengers.

Once we let captains shift blame....IMHO....that's a very slippery slope......

Again, so sorry for the pain and anguish of all......but didn't they trust the Captain to make sure they were safe & provide safe passage???

When you take control of a vessel, aren't you in control of the safety of the passengers?

Just MHO.......

Your Thoughts???

:unsure:
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I think just because he was working on a houseboat in Halls, has nothing to do with knowing the lake. And you are right, in the fact that who ever is running the boat, is responsible for that boat. But I have seen nothing that suggest he is trying to shift blame to any one. I think he knows they are lucky to all be alive, and is happy with that fact. But it seams a lot of people just want to put blame some where to find answers, but accidents happen, and if they didn't we would probably not be required by law to have insurance.
A lot of people ask if he were drunk, and I didn't know, but it don't look like it was a factor and that would have been the first thing mentioned if it had been the case, shifting the blame to that. When I hit the buoy and threw my BIL out, I felt like ****, and that was in the day time. And yes I was responsible for running the boat, and learned a valuable lesson that day. He was lucky he never hit anything but water, and I stayed in the boat, running 27 mph, I know thats what I was running, because I all ways ran wide open, and thats what it ran wide open GPS, and that was a hard enough impact to throw a 325 lb man out, and eject everything but me, out of the boat.
 
The article doesn't mention if they were following a previously plotted route, or if they were simply relying on the GPS map which may have been calibrated at a higher lake level. Where they crashed (looks like it would be covered at full lake level) leads me to believe that they were just relying on a map.

As others have mentioned, having a plotted GPS track that you have previously ran during the day is essential if you are going to be running the lake at night. I have ran a boat at night without issues, but I always have a plotted course that is far away from any buoys (basically, the center of the channel) because some of them don't light up.

We have a Garmin GPSMAP and the only time where it may not have an accurate location is when we are in a tight canyon with overhanging walls where you can't see the sky, which is understandable. Even then, it only shows us off by 10-15 ft.
 
Moe Jones said:
We were over there when it happened and they were left of the blinky buoy that was almost on shore. It needs repositioned back into the channel. It seems to be the first going into Bullfrog Bay.
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Moe
Did I talk to you the next morning?
 
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