Discussion in 'Lake Powell Recreation' started by truenorth, Sep 1, 2017.

  1. truenorth

    truenorth Member

    Like a lot of folks we bring our dog to LP Bullfrog area. Wondering where the nearest veterinarian is in case of a canine emergency such as snake bite or illness? On google I don't see anything in Hanksville or Green River but may have missed someone not listed.
  2. PowellBride

    PowellBride Well-Known Member

    Try Moab, Monticello and Torrey. Basically, it's best to keep them on leash on shore or in the water if you are worried about snakes. We bought a small snake bite kit from the army/navy surplus store when I took my dogs down, and read the instructions before each trip. Hard to say, but we basically knew a snake bite at Powell would probably be deadly for the dogs. Been blessed, in 30 years I've never actually seen anything besides a bull snake and I'd like to keep it that way
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2017
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  3. truenorth

    truenorth Member

    The bigger towns have vets but length of drive would be an issue in an emergency. We keep our dog leashed as well except when at waters edge.
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  4. Goblin

    Goblin Well-Known Member

    Here is some information I have learned regarding snakebites collected from both real world training and academic sources:
    1. First Do No Harm
    2. Snakebite kits - Are of little use:
      • Do not make incisions to help remove venom which was the norm years ago - this does more harm than good.
      • A suction device is largely ineffective especially on furry surfaces. If used it does give the feeling of trying. Venom spreads so fast that blood & other bodily fluids are mostly all that you will get out.
      • Never use a tourniquet which again was a norm in days gone by. Some still recommend a MILD constricting band, that in no way cuts off circulation, between the heart and bite. This too, is out of favor. The reason is that people suck (sts) at that and panicky people really suck at that. A constricting band generally can do far more harm than good.
      • Antiseptic wipes or solution: You SHOULD clean the bite as soon as possible with water flushing the wound. This will remove any venom on or very near the surface which could be absorbed by the victim. An antiseptic can then be applied to help prevent infection
    3. Cold/ice packs to slow venom movement are another mostly not recommended treatment. This is now believed to do more harm than good but some still recommend it. I personally don't because it does little to slow the venom and makes an injured in-shock victim cold. When treating shock you should keep the victim warm if possible and dogs/cats have an even higher body temp than us lowly humans.
    4. It is recommended to keep the bite below heart level if possible. It might help and it doesn't make anything worse.
    5. Identify the snake: Photograph it, catch it, kill it - whatever it takes. Being able to show or tell what the snake was is very important to a provider for treatment.
    6. Proceed to medical help as fast as is safe. Note: Don't forget the dog. ... Hey, some people would.
    The good news:
    Some estimates place death to dogs from poisonous snakebites at less than about one in five (20%) .
    Here is the primary reason for that.
    About two thirds of first-strike snakebites have little to no venom. Envenomation is voluntary on the part of the snake and the snake does not like to waste such a precious resource unnecessarily. It's life depends on hunting that next meal and wasting ammo (sts) on a dog/human that can be scared away by a dry strike is not the first choice.

    A dry strike is the most probable first-strike from a snake here in the US.

    Note: All bets are off with immature juveniles that have not learned how to control themselves. (Applies to the dog also and humans for that matter.)

    A muzzle might come in handy for any injured, otherwise friendly animal. If it's hurt, again all bets might be off.
    I remember one time I was helping with an injured pet. Just the noise alone of barking and screaming all the while trying to scratch and bite. Terrible! Once we got the muzzle on my wife, taking care of our cat was much easier.:eek:.....;) {Dramatization, may not have happened}

    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
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  5. Goblin

    Goblin Well-Known Member

    Just corrected my post....accidently said to keep bite above heart level and that's just kinda dumb....I fixed it
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
  6. birdsnest

    birdsnest Well-Known Member

    10 years on Powell with an extremely active dog. No leash, no snake bites and a blast. I think one would have to be extremely unlucky to get bit. To me, the fun outweighed the risk 10 times over but to each their own. BTW my dog Zeke swam underwater up to about 15 feet. When I dove down to see what he was doing he would be walking on the bottom like a hippo. When I would get close he would look at me and smile. I would have to surface everytime cause it's not a good idea to laugh underwater. 1/2 chocolate lab 1/2 australian shepherd. Sure miss him.
  7. truenorth

    truenorth Member

    Goblin, as a former paramedic I totally agree with the snake bite treatment. Basically need to keep quite, least movement as possible and get to a hospital. There are no good "snake bite kits" but some left over from the old days of "cut and suck", tourniquets, etc. They should not be on the market. 7-8,000 people in U.S. are bitten each year but only half a dozen die so odds in one's favor. Had heard that most dogs survive as well and the envenomation is a factor you hope is in your favor.

    Great story Birdsnest about your diving dog. In the past I have let our dog run free within limits but have become more paranoid I guess given there are no vets within a hundred miles. And it would be the end of the trip for everyone involved as well.
  8. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

    Bring Benadryl with you. 1 mg per 1 pound of dog.

    There are also snake avoidance clinics for your dog. Usually held in the spring.
  9. truenorth

    truenorth Member

    Actually we do carry benadryl as our dog recently had some allergies, prescribed by our vet 1 mg/lb dose twice a day. I also read that for snake bite and swelling you can give 2/mg per pound until veterinarian contact. Remove collar in case of neck swelling. Also 50 mg of Tramadol for pain is ok if indicated.
  10. Dave I.

    Dave I. Well-Known Member

    There is a new Vet in Lyman, UT and there is a Vet Hospital in Bicknell, UT. They are probably the closest to Bullfrog. You can figure 130+/- miles each way from Bullfrog for either of them

    Tri County Veterinary Hospital
    Address: 352 E 200th N, Bicknell, UT 84715
    Phone: (435) 425-3487
    I believe this hospital just does livestock and large animals but could be wrong.

    Fremont River Veterinary Clinic
    202 W SR 24
    Lyman, Utah, UT 84749

    (435) 836-2211
    This is a new practice and have been told they are eager for new customers and do treat dogs and cats. Haven't talked to them to verify that

    Hope the word gets out and can save your pets if needed.

    ROSCOELAB Well-Known Member

    we live in Page, we use the snake bite vaccine they offer, boosters every year about the time the snakes are waking up, been lucky and the first rattle my dog heard he came running back to me, had that look on his face of "WTF is that dad?"
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  12. Pegasus

    Pegasus Well-Known Member

    Roscoelab, what is the "snake bite vaccine they offer"? Who is they - the vet in Page? This could be useful for us. Thanks for the info, Doug
  13. Goblin

    Goblin Well-Known Member

    Benadryl can be effective symptom relief:
    Dosage: The general rule of thumb for an adult dog is 0.9 to 1.8 milligrams per pound of weight.
    Side effects usually occur within an hour of taking the medication and are typically mild. If a dog experiences severe side effects, the animal needs immediate veterinary care. These include:
    • Drooling.
    • Excitability. Note: Not to be confused with the normal Drooling & Excitability of a standard issue, one each, happy-go-lucky dog.:p
    Tramadol can help with pain if necessary:
    Dosage: The general rule of thumb for an adult dog is .5 - 1.8mg per pound.
    Side effects, of which there are many, can be mild or severe; common mild symptoms include: drowsiness, upset stomach, constipation, blurred vision, and difficulties sleeping. While these are not usually too dangerous, if you notice the symptoms increasing or persisting, talk to your vet. There are some dogs that experience more severe tramadol side effects and these require emergency medical attention from a vet: convulsions, peeling rash, difficulties breathing, or slowing of the heart rate.

    Please be careful and only administer if absolutely necessary. If you think snakebite is bad.....wait until you have snakebite AND an OD or adverse reaction.
    Please read the below before deciding on a snakebite vaccine which is really only a temporary short duration attempt at toxin acclimation. In other words, you dose the dog before the snake does....kinda a man bites dog idea.


    ROSCOELAB Well-Known Member

    i dont know Goblin, the two dogs in our area that have been bit one took no antivenom ( a dry bite or a low dose injection) and the other was an early spring bite and he only took 2 viles of antivenom. now thats a whole lot better then the 5 to 10 viles most bites take. i will pay the $45 and roll the dice with the vaccine i guess. isnt that what we do with ourselves and kids anyway with vaccines?
    Doug (pegasus) yes, offered at the vet here, i have done this for over 10 years with my dogs, we thought one had been bitten in 2005 and raced in off the lake, thats when the vet offered the vaccine.
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  15. Goblin

    Goblin Well-Known Member

    Everyone has to make their own decision and I can't be certain which is the wisest choice. My choice is to not vaccinate unless it is necessary (even though this is not really a vaccine). A strong deciding point is efficacy which in this case is unproven without any documented evidence save a survey and anecdotes.

    My own personal experience was to receive 11 different vaccines on multiple occasions as a child which were required when moving to and living in the jungles of Venezuela. Cholera, Typhoid, Yellow Fever were a few of them. As an adult, a variety of less usual ones were still required due to worldwide deployability. Today I receive but a few however, policy effects in the last few decades may soon ramp those numbers back up to a more Third World regimen here in the US, e.g., bedbugs everywhere, Hantavirus in the Southwest, bubonic plague in the Southwest, tuberculosis everywhere, Zika everywhere, ebola, etc. etc.

    Any animals in my life, in-laws notwithstanding, are considered close family members and no cost, if it helps, would be spared. I have lost a dear pet to vaccine related sarcoma. That was and can still be a terrible cancer with a clear link to adjuvanted vaccines.

    If you do your due diligence and decide it's required I wish you and your little friends the best of luck regardless of type of vaccine or treatment.

    My best wishes for you and yours,
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
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