The Cut
- Thread starter greg sr
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Phillbo
Escalante-Class Member
What, you don't like to eat or flush?
Digging the cut deeper while they have a chance might help.
Cheef Baconator
Active Member
Yes, we need to be way less wasteful with our water in the Southwest, but no amount of good water policy will actually make Glen Canyon into a viable reservoir. Welcome to the desert.
Marina Bum
Escalante-Class Member
I agree that we need good water policy and that we are in a desert but why do you say this reservoir can never be viable? Away from all the controversy of the canyons and over consumption wouldn't having real reserves of water make sense? The way they are managed now doesn't work I agree, It's a serious question. I don't want to stray to far off the topic of "is the cut open" (If that was a joke it's a brilliant post, if not we are bunch of Jackals) but this relates to lake levels. To me good water policy would mean states getting a share of the river based on inflow not guaranteed acre feet, conservation and full reservoirs. I'm open to hear what you think
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When it is managed to keep the marinas at both ends functional as planned recreation sources I think it is very viable along with considerations of what is needed for generation of electricity.
The general problem now though is that the good years are not allowed to persist to raise the overall water levels through time to get back towards full pool and a few bad years in a row can make a huge dent where it takes miracle years to recover.
They do need a more flexible system of management which would allow for that to happen and percentages of inflows (after considering what is already being taken plus evaporation) seems like the most rational approach. Unfortunately the laws do not give them much flexibility when it comes down to water rights.
The general problem now though is that the good years are not allowed to persist to raise the overall water levels through time to get back towards full pool and a few bad years in a row can make a huge dent where it takes miracle years to recover.
They do need a more flexible system of management which would allow for that to happen and percentages of inflows (after considering what is already being taken plus evaporation) seems like the most rational approach. Unfortunately the laws do not give them much flexibility when it comes down to water rights.
FishnFly
Well-Known Member
Time to change the laws then! Not an attorney but I’m sure that is what’s needed for us to find any sort of viable solution.
Hmmmmm, Glen Canyon dam is releasing 10200 CFS and the electrical generation is at 68% of full capacity. Hoover Dam is releasing near 18,000 CFS and generation is belive near 35% capacity. So let's pretend we shut down all water rights to the farmers in the IID region, which seems the big early water rights law that everyone seems to focus on. Where does all this water go after it goes through both dams to product less than full production of power if we take it away from IID? I've said this before, nobody seems to notice,,, that Lake Havasu,,, wich is below Lake Mead, is ALWAYS at full pool. Actually today it is above full pool. Anybody ever notice this. Anybody ever question this? Where does San Diego County, San Bernadino County and LA County get a majority of there domestic water? Yep you guessed it from Lake Havasu. The California/ LA Aquaduct is just as large or even larger than IIDs All American Canal. Plus these counties have another equally large Aquaduct coming from delta area in Sacramento. Another main Aquaduct coming from Lake Havasu feeds domestic water to Phoenix and Tuscon. Much as the beaurocrats want everyone to believe that the farmers in the IID district are the big water wasters, which seems to be working, everybody needs to look and question this. Why can Lake Havasu be always kept at full pool when the rest upstream cant?????
A man called horse
Active Member
Power generation is the reason Powell must be kept above the designed head. Has there been any consideration to pumping back the water during off peak hrs. as is done on Roosevelt & other large lakes in the west?
WaterMan
Well-Known Member
The project for pumping water back into Roosevelt lake is projected to be completed in 2030 to 2033. Pumping water back into a lake is at Canyon lake pumped back to Apache lake. This might be causing other issues. Golden Algae Blooms are a big issue in Canyon lake and Saguaro lake sense 2003.
www.azgfd.com
Algae-caused fish kills confirmed at Saguaro, Canyon - Arizona Game & Fish Department
AZGFD is monitoring the situation at the Salt River chain lakes and will provide updates as needed.
www.azgfd.com
Bill Sampson
Keeper of San Juan Secrets
I just found out last week that the water from Lake Havasu is being used to refill Lake Pleasant, which was over 35 feet low. I didn't even know that they were connected.
Yes that's part of CAP. Central Arizona Project. Today close to 13000 CFS is going into Havasu and a little over 10000 CFS is being released downstream from it. I'm trying to figure out where the other 5000 CFS is disappearing to between Hoover Dam to Lake Havasu?
WaterMan
Well-Known Member
Yes they start filling in February and end in May. When releasing water back into CAP canal they generate power over the summer. That is how stripers were introduced into the lake.
nzaugg
Keeper of San Juan Secrets
Havasu is essentially a forebay for a pump station. It is always full because the pumps require it to always be full. You can't deliver any water out of the system without the proper suction head on the pumps. It really doesn't have that much storage volume though, at just under 620,000 acre feet.
That was pretty much my point on mentioning it. It's always full, prioritized for LA, SD, SB, Phoenix and Tuscon.
Marina Bum
Escalante-Class Member
We used to boat on boats Saguaro and Canyon. If you went to the back of both lakes in the narrows it was strange to get swept upstream from the rising lake levels.The project for pumping water back into Roosevelt lake is projected to be completed in 2030 to 2033. Pumping water back into a lake is at Canyon lake pumped back to Apache lake. This might be causing other issues. Golden Algae Blooms are a big issue in Canyon lake and Saguaro lake sense 2003.
Algae-caused fish kills confirmed at Saguaro, Canyon - Arizona Game & Fish Department
AZGFD is monitoring the situation at the Salt River chain lakes and will provide updates as needed.
RiverRat68
Active Member
Lake Powell, Lake Mead, Lake Mohave, Lake Havasu…none would even exist if it weren’t for LA, SD, Phoenix…as well as La Vegas, Yuma and IV farmers, and others…the water would just ebb and flow with the seasons and there would be no lakes, no winter food, no power (from those dams), no development in those areas…it’s the whole reason the Compact was negotiated and signed and Congress appropriated money to build the dams and reservoirs. Boating and recreation are nice side effects.
With increased demand over the years and lack of investment in addition supply (a well as persistent drought conditions), It has become a difficult problem to manage (master of the obvious I am, I know).
That is exactly the point I was trying to make. But it's managed to get most everybody to focus on the age old water right law by the IID and how they are the biggest water wasters. Meanwhile the LA aquaduct and Californis aquaduct are running brim to brim. So are the AZ aquaducts. Meanwhile All American Canal is running about 1/2 to 3/4 capacity bringing water to IID. Then the Coachella Canal branches off the All American to take water to Coachella Valley is running 1/2 to 3/4 capacity.
San Diego has at least 6 dams that have been in disrepair for over 3 decades with very little action to make them right, oh years and grants to study them for a solution. That won't let them hold water for fear of dam failure so any water is just released. LA has similar situations.Now tell me who the water wasters are?
RiverRat68
Active Member
Yes indeed…agree with you on all points. Years ago, my wife made observation stating that someone in CA government should figure out a way to capture all of the excess run off from rainstorms and snow melt…I said…”they had, honey…they’re called dams”…to this day, I occasionally remind her of that brain fart moment…however, her main point was that very little water infrastructure investment (including desalination) had been made in the last 50 years even though the population of CA went from 21.5M to 39.5M (+18M) in that time…oh, and NV was +2.7M and AZ was +5.2M in that same timeframe.
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