Park Service Incompetence

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buckin_ho said:
Budget deficits also result from cuts. Are fees (and tax dollars) being spent wisely? Let's start here: https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/files/fy2020-nps-justification.pdf
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I don't have time to read through this document. Perhaps when I am suffering from insomnia, I'll wade through it.

I will question your use of the word "cuts". It is my understanding that NPS hasn't suffered what I would consider a true "budget cut" - where they actually have less money to spend this year than last, but have suffered from base line budgeting "cuts" which is a reduction in the expected rate of growth.

Do you have info to support either position.

Also, you come across as very passionate about this matter, and have quite a bit of info. Would you be kind enough to share who the person is behind "bucking_ho"? What is your dog in this fight? It seems to be more/different than your average lake user.
 
buckin_ho said:
Idea: call Aramark and/or NPS and find out for us. Also ask them if they are the "most incompetant people ever".
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There have been many instances of people reaching out to contact either NPS or Aramark in the recent past, with no response from them. Do you have a better method than the "contact us" they list on websites? I've also left messages at the phone number for Glen Canyon NPS without a call back. If you have more direct contact info, I am sure many here would be interested in the info.
 
In the ten years I worked there (96-06) I think bids came up three times. I have been out of that loop for so long now I don't know dates for recent bids. I didn't think the state of the economy had anything to do with when the bid dates. That wouldn't seem right to me. I would venture a guess that both Aramark and NPS are just fine with the current situation. I'm sure it has grown quite cozy.
 
Steve Moore said:
Double of Lake Mead
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We pay over $1000/month, 12 months a year, for our slip. Does anyone know how many slips there are at the lake? Or at least at Bullfrog?

And, before I get labeled, I do think that the title of this thread "incompetence" is too strong. I do think that there is much that could be improved, and I wish there was more communication and responsiveness from both NPS and Aramark.
 
Look guys, trying to get anything out of any federal agency is like pushing a rope! I’ve spent the last two decades working with multiple agencies, and I can tell you, if your going to get any response at all, you must approach them with your hat in hand. Also, public safety gets their attention.
 
I am guessing on this from my hazy memory, but I think the Aramark contract would require something along the lines of a new bidder has to pay off Aramark for the improvements they have made over the years. Since the actual market value of the improvements (based upon the economic value of the business) is not equal to the cost payoff, nobody else can afford to bid.
 
I have experience working with other government agencies, not the NPS. The problem I have encountered is the growth of "administration/overhead" is by FAR outpacing the increase in funding provided to those that "do the work" per se. But, when budget cuts come, the first to get cut are the "do the work" people/projects, so not much work gets done but fixed administration/overhead stays healthy and strong.

Real world example - I approach a public university and want to hire them to do some research for me, for say, $100,000. The overhead rate is 60%, so I pay $100,000, and only $40,000 goes to those doing the research that I need, while $60,000 goes to overhead (this number varies nationwide but is more or less 60%). In private entities I'm familiar with, the overhead rate is between 20% and 35%, around 1/2 that of the universities!

My guess is that government agencies like NPS are similar, with a lot of the funding going to overhead/admin and not much going to the "boots on the ground" workers and real projects.

My last comment on this replying to a comment above - if NPS was worried about safety on the lake, why do the navigation buoys go for months on end lying on the beach, and those that are in place don't have working night navigation lights. Seems this would be pretty high on the safety repair list. And yes, I have called them on this - nothing happens.
 
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I agree with your assessment and I find it interesting that you cite public education cause that's my pet peave. All the money spent on our kids education and so much is WASTED on administration. I don't blame the teachers. I swear it seems like the admin. is rewarded for liberalization of our kids and that really torques me. And I know this will tic some off, but in general our education system has proven that throwing money at it doesn't make more educated kids. Sorry for going off the tracks here. Boots on the ground get the job done. Not only that but because many of the Admin bunch have never been in the field they make terrible, wasteful decisions. That feels better. You want to screw the jobsite up, call the engineer.
 
Steve Moore said:
I’ve been to my congressman’s office multiple times with pictures of violations of electrical. Also the video of them watching the houseboat burn last year
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You really think a private company and its employees should be responding to houseboat fires? There is a massive liability to have those employees respond to fires especially when those fires are on private property not belonging to the company. This day and age if a company or employee does something to stop something like it is construed as an admission of guilt to the owner and then the owner sues. Also if their employee is injured then the company is liable plus they have to maintain fire equipment as well as training. With the turn over I have seen over the years it would be a massive liability when the Park service trains specifically for those situations. I don't know what changed Aramark's policy on fighting fires but it seemed to change after the fires at the Hall's slips. I say it's best to leave it to NPS and not add additional victims to the situation especially if the boat is vacant. Why risk life for property? Property can be replaced but life can't.
 
I think that if a private company and it's employees have the potential to start a fire they should be trained to help the people and in some cases the property that they put in jeopardy. Talk about liability. Standing by while the problem you created escalates from a manageable situation to one that gets out of control is not acceptable. Absolutely they should require training for events that will occur.. Of course a time will come when it's not safe to try and put a fire out but you can't just stand by all the time. This is an example of admin being out of touch with the daily operations. I had two fires on two separate houseboats from generator backfires. It would have been ridiculous to stand there and watch the boats burn when all I had to do was use a fire extinquisher to put them out. Lawyers have ruined America.
 
Red Rock Paradise said:
You really think a private company and its employees should be responding to houseboat fires? There is a massive liability to have those employees respond to fires especially when those fires are on private property not belonging to the company. This day and age if a company or employee does something to stop something like it is construed as an admission of guilt to the owner and then the owner sues. Also if their employee is injured then the company is liable plus they have to maintain fire equipment as well as training. With the turn over I have seen over the years it would be a massive liability when the Park service trains specifically for those situations. I don't know what changed Aramark's policy on fighting fires but it seemed to change after the fires at the Hall's slips. I say it's best to leave it to NPS and not add additional victims to the situation especially if the boat is vacant. Why risk life for property? Property can be replaced but life can't.
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Had it not been for private parties around it would have burnt every boat on that dock and probably more. The Coast Guard used to train their employees and they have the boats. But your right they don’t want the responsibility of taking care of your property, the just want to take care of your money. The boat was occupied and everybody on the slips were running them fire extinguishers. On the final explosion after it was out of slip they all dove off and a private boat picked them up.
 
The day will come when all us stupid old farts are dead and people will stand around watching each other get assaulted, bleed out and generally don't get involved cause of liability. What a crappy world that would be. Makes me said for the kids but they won't know any better. Hope I don't sound melodramatic.
 
birdsnest said:
I agree with your assessment and I find it interesting that you cite public education cause that's my pet peave. All the money spent on our kids education and so much is WASTED on administration. I don't blame the teachers. I swear it seems like the admin. is rewarded for liberalization of our kids and that really torques me. And I know this will tic some off, but in general our education system has proven that throwing money at it doesn't make more educated kids. Sorry for going off the tracks here. Boots on the ground get the job done. Not only that but because many of the Admin bunch have never been in the field they make terrible, wasteful decisions. That feels better. You want to screw the jobsite up, call the engineer.
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Just to confirm your statement regarding administration costs, checkout the salaries that the upper management people make in the universities. It is staggering.
 
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