New(er) Houseboats vs. Older Houseboats

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You will get a lot of good feedback here. You have several decisions that all start with how much money are you plan on spending. This is the largest variable. Your next decision is how many partners, if any, you want, and I think this is a larger consideration than how old the boat is, which is the third variable, do you want new or used keeping in mind after the first year in a new high dollar time share, the boat is very used, but the new price loan payment remains. And then do you want wet slip for ultimate convenience or launch and retrieve.

For me, I would take the money available from all three families and put it into the best maintained used, wet slipped, boat that serves your needs with the fewest number of partners. For best investment value I would not be influenced by any of the new excess boats. Family and the lake is the source of your memories not a $5k stainless hood over the upper bbq. And the more things you have on board, the more things that will eventually break. Bravada and compass north changed everything a few years ago with fresh designs, interior details that don't all work well with wet environment, home build processes instead of marine, etc, but these very expensive boats depreciate very fast and after 5 years your $125k buy in is on Craigslist for $20k. And as soon as you have a member who bought in at such low buy in, that member and his share cost will become the baseline. Spend the money on reducing partner count not on flashy excess.

At the end of the day 18 timeshares per boat is way to many, but that happens to be a number that provides one week per timeshare owner during the summer but more important makes each share available for just above 5% of total asset entry cost, it also allows the boat builder and management company to make massive massive profit as each buyer is not looking at the total cost or line list cost, they are looking at their very diluted equity slot and associated lower cost and just just happy that they can get into a boat for an obtainable buy in. In my opinion I would NOT buy into a new boat unless you need a hole to dump cash or have cash to fund the entire purchase, keyword here is cash, I would not finance a new $100k timeshare buy in, but would finance if needed a buy into a used 2 partner boat at $100k per share that has seen its value stabilize. Again, I would spend the money on reducing partners. I would be happy with an older boat that has been very well maintained with just 2-4 partners. A partnership like this is going to be self managed instead of pro managed especially if wet slipped and that is a financial benefit as long as all the partners share the same goal and are on the same financial level, willing to spend the money on the boat. A cheap or financial limited parter will make things hell for everyone, not wanting to spend $25 on a generator impeller until it fails etc, let alone adding a new upstairs kitchen. Avoid cheap partners. And meet every partner and make sure you are the same "type" of people. If you have a dog make sure your boat allows dogs, understanding a dog boat will usually be a notch below a non dog boat with carpet condition etc. If your partners have teenage kids and are from Utah understand that there will be 15 kids plus 6 adults onboard during their weeks, a lot of extra rough use and wear. By having fewer partners means more time available on the boat, so instead of one week per year you can get one week per month and what this means is instead of having 27 people on the boat once a year you can have 10 people on the boat over three monthly trips instead. Fewer people on board lowers stress and prolongs friendships. Do not be afraid of buying an older boat but make sure it shows as very clean and very well maintained especially in the engine area, you do not want to see wires going everywhere or clutter and junk everywhere, or oily bilges, everything should be tidy and clean. Look at the logs and make sure the generator oil is getting changed every 100 hours, make sure the the impellers are changed out every year, etc. I would not consider a boat with more than 4 partners total and would prefer a 2 partner boat and do not be afraid of a single family owner option, with the three families you mentioned that may be an option. You can get a lot of boat today for the money, check out crop duster at AP.

I would suggest a good inverter system and gas stoves as this allows you to operate without the generator during the cooler periods of the year. I would also suggest a full size fridge downstairs and second kitchen with full size fridge and gas stove and oven upstairs. A hardtop upstairs will be cooler than a canvas top. A full wrap black screen will keep temps cooler on the upper deck. Make sure your fuel tanks can handle 7-10 days full generator run plus main engine to an from marina plus enough for jet ski refills etc. 30 - 75 gallon per day works for us depending on ski boat use. You will need 6 anchors and 8 lines (secure the bow to closet anchor). Pontoon will drive straighter and sit more stable on beach than mono hull, but you give up storage space, desert shore and destination make good aluminum toon boats, stay 100% away from steel. You can get ALOT of Destination Yacht boat for the money, very good value choice. Deck mounted AC system are loud and hot, a water cooled setup is much quieter and allows zone cooling and also provides redundant systems, this is beneficial if one system fails, you still have other water cooled AC systems as back up to keep the boat cool. Also, black tank size is important and can easily be expanded with a second transfer tank and pump, plan on 20 gallons per person per week, which is about 3 gallons per person per day, 200 gallon minimum black tank with at least 2 toilets. You do not want water tanks, just have a good big blue water filter system and plan on drinking bottled water.

Good luck. And remember it is not the boat that makes memories it is the family and Powell. Don't overspend, you can get a lot of boat for the money right now and do not overlook buying a used single owner and forming your own 3 family partnership just for your family with entry cost and monthly cost split 3 ways. Whatever you do, do NOT buy into a new 18 share timeshare, if you want new boat then buy out a desperate condition share holder from a last year launch at half the price he paid last year.
 
Another BIG decision is wet slip vrs dry storage, both are expensive. The only benefit of launch and retrieve is cheaper gas refills but that savings is only about $350 per week on an older boat with smaller generator or $750 week on newer boats with larger generators. The only party benefiting with launch and retrieve is the management company charging $1000 - $2000 per cycle, with slip rates about $1100 per month, so 6-12 launches per year is your break even. In my opinion once you wet slip you will never dry store again. If you slip at AP you are limited on service providers as there is a basic monopoly there, but if you slip at Wahweap then you can hire any service provider with park privileges. AP is polished with its service and presentation, their marina is clean and very well appointed, just look at the thick wood bathroom doors, and Wahweap is as budget as it gets. Think La Jolla for AP and Tijuana for Wahweap. They both have cart services but again AP has many more drivers and transports bags and people in the same vehicle, at Wahweap the bags are put into carts that are pulled by quads and separate golf carts haul people. The biggest problem at Wahweap is boat owners are behind the restaurant in priority so the golf carts are busy running people between the hotel and the restaurant on the dock driving right by you in the parking lot. And some days only one cart driver is working, which means very long wait time. The drop off unload zone at Wahweap is a complete joke and just one party with 2-3 cars can clog up the entire unload area. Even with the new improvements zero thought went into the drop off area, they need to eliminate all parking at the top on that entry corridor and place 50 trailer bins along that entire entry for 10 -15 cars to unload at same time while using a fleet of drivers and quads to haul the trailers once filled. Currently Wahweap only has about 8-10 small tow carts and maybe 2-3 quads at the main marina and one party can fill all of them, so if you arrive behind a big party it may be hours before you get unloaded, very very poor cart service at Wahweap. The Wahweap rental dock has all the support with a lot of carts and maybe 8 quads, the main marina is very poorly equipped or staffed for unloading. Wahweap also uses smaller hand carts but they do not have a night shift so these get taken down to the docks and left on the dock until the next day. If you arrive after 11pm during season or 5 pm off season at Wahweap you are screwed as it is 100% up to you to unload and transport your own stuff, a huge negative! AP has 24 hour cart service, a huge advantage. Once on the main Wahweap dock you will notice the side docks at Wahweap are too narrow for the quads so the bag trailers must disconnect from the quads and be hand pushed to your boat, again a total joke. Wahweap needs to widen every dock at their marina, back in the 70's when they were built the tiny width docks worked when each person brought a sleeping bag and a 6 pack to a 45 foot boat, today the narrow docks do not work well at all. Wahweap will not spend a single penny unless forced so you will have to deal with the totally inaduquate cart system and narrow docks over there. They do have two new wide docks and hopefully this means soon all the docks will be wide soon. Wahweap is certainly chasing AP but refuses to lead if it cost money. The only benefit to Wahweap is if you are arriving from slc it is a 20 minute time saver over AP. Bullfrog is an option, but the support at Page like Walmart and 20 service providers has huge benefit. For me I would only consider AP and pass on Wahweap until they step it up by a lot. AP dock is awesome. Another huge problem with Wahweap is they are always running loud power washers to clean the surface of the dock of dog poop and oil dripping from all the carts. This noise is non stop every day. Last year they used a quite electric cleaner but they are back to the loud gas power washer on wheels with long hoses this year. If that heavy power washer ever rolls into the lake it can pull alot of people down with it if legs or feet get tangled in the long long hoses that just lay up and down the dock like nooses. The largest negatives of Wahweap is very poor cart support and very loud non stop gas powered pressure washers. Wahweap needs to resurface the dock to permit easier wash off with push brooms and hoses and they need to increase cart service or force the hotel and restaurants to add their own carts and drivers so the dock carts are just for boat users. AP also seems to keep employees longer, Wahweap cannot keep good employee, turn over is measured in weeks and months. Both docks have restaurants, but again the one at AP is way better. The one at Wahweap is overflow for the hotel so some nights it gets busy and slow from hotel guests who also get priority on the golf carts. You can also explore buoy but you will need to get a boat ride to your boat and this now cost money.
 
One other thought on the new larger boats, I had the opportunity to tour an new Bravada 2 story 75 foot houseboat. I noticed quite the fire alarm and boat monitoring system. A big question I would have is whether there is anyone in Page capable of troubleshooting this system if it goes into alarm? It looked very complicated to me. I could see someone "by-passing" relays after a while to keep the alarms from coming on. Just a thought.
 
ok -- here goes --- When I look at the original post --- I saw myself in the mirror ---

I started coming to the lake in the 80's with my father on fishing trips -- we stayed in the camper on the truck -- pulled a 16 ft boat, and camped at halls --- very vivid memories of water skiing, fishing and jumping off the rocks into the water --- I could not imagine it being "better" than that.

Few years later we brought a few friends, and a motor home -- did the same things on the water, but had lots of "extra" room for sleeping -- I was probably 16 at the time, so the 100 degree weather had no effect on me daytime or night time-- after a few trips -- I could not imagine it being "better" than that --

Life and distance to Powell got in the way in collage and numerous years after but in 1999 a friend in Denver asked if the wife and I wanted to join him / his wife, and another couple on a 36ft rental houseboat --- We jumped at that offer, and off we went -- drove that rental up to the san juan, and stayed the week -- did all the tings I remembered from my youth -- I did not remember it being that hot at night when I was 16 ---- must have just been a hot your I thought -- it was cramped with 6 aboard, but I was on the lake and could not imagine it being "better" than that --- We did that for several years -- again life got in the way--

forward to 2007 -- I take a job in Grand Junction, and a friend says -- we need to buy a houseboat ---- I am in -- we purchase what I thought was the best boat on the lake --- 65ft -- generator -- slide--- plenty of berths --- after lots of work, it was ready to put in the water -- over the next several years we drove that boat all over the lake -- 3 owners, plenty of time--- lots of family joined us -- it was a lot of work for me the Captain -- but -- hay we had a few rv refrigerators that only stopped working a few times a day, a generator that work at least 1/2 the time needed, engines that worked fine after a lot of starting fluid, and wet towels that you could use on the top deck to try to get some sleep ( no ac) -- I could not imagine it getting any "better" than that--

In 2010 we put that boat in a covered slip at bullfrog -- shade, electric..... we were soon spending more time in the slip than taking it out on the lake --- we would take the speed boat anywhere we wanted to go -- it was great as we did not have to do a lot of packing, planning -- just load up the truck and go ---Once again -- I could not imagine it getting and "better" than that --

Only one thing wrong ------ I wonderd what all of those other nicer boats next to my have to offer -----------

The next year, we sell the houseboat because the other 2 partners want out, and I could not find new partners to join -- so we sold the thing ---

Two years ago, another friend asks --- do you want into another boat ---

what this boat has that going forward I am not sure I want to live without--

1. slipped in a great location -- we almost never take it out of the slip -- we love the fact we can use as a home base
2. few owners -- not that we use a lot, but the wear and tear is something to consider
3. AC without a condenser on the back deck -- this one has a heat pump in the hull -- you can sit on the back deck and have a conversation
4. normal refrigerator -- no need to worry about propane, or the other problems with propane refrigerators --
5. nice size showers -- warm water in the fall, cool in the summer -- getting clean and not having to jump in the lake ---- nice
6. normal beds -- no need to sleep on the top deck unless you want to
7. plenty of room 70 ft by 18 ft -- we can leave in slip and handle just 2 of us, or bring many friends and go out--

Are there nicer, much more expensive houseboats on the lake ---- YES --- I try real hard to stay away from them --- because at this point, I can not image it any " better" than this--
 
Great feedback!
I see newer shinier boats selling shares for the same amount as older stuff. Operating costs aren't much difference. I wonder if people are nervous about mussel infestation and maintenance costs, and bailing out of their partnerships? If I were going to buy a share, I would be looking in the middle 2000's for year, or newer, expect to pay $3-4000 per share, and annual fees around $16-1800.
 
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Dale,
I think there are a few folks who can no longer do it on their own. Maybe I can talk my husband into hosting a few folks like you for a few days on our boat next summer. He's not quite as social as I am, but he has a good heart. I'll have to give it some thought

Thanks, Powell Bride, That would be wonderful. Even a day would be good. We could bring whatever you need. I want to get back on the Lake so bad that I might take a despicable TOUR BOAT to Rainbow this fall.
 
Thanks, Powell Bride, That would be wonderful. Even a day would be good. We could bring whatever you need. I want to get back on the Lake so bad that I might take a despicable TOUR BOAT to Rainbow this fall.
That is desperate. I'll have to give some serious thought to a plan. I can think of at least one other person I only know through the WW board who might also like a day or two on the lake
 
I just have to say that this is one of my favorite threads on WW right now. I love hearing the internal thought processes of fellow houseboaters! I've learned a lot. I've also learned that many of us have the same goals and rationale. Thanks to all who have commented!
 
My heart goes out to your grandson and family. Glad you are able to find joy while dealing with such a sad and devastating illness.
Thank you for the nice thoughts. We are one big happy family. My grandson is treated no different than the other kids by us, his parents or extended family. He is a joy and will be loved as long as he is here. He is as much a blessing in our lives as any we can imagine.
 
Hey Jeff,
That is one gorgeous boat you're considering and I don't have much more to add to all the comments. I'm on a 1995 68x16 foot houseboat in the slips at Bullfrog and there's a couple of things I couldn't do without...the icemaker and big chest freezer! We no longer make any runs for ice not because the icemaker can keep up with all our needs but because we freeze gallon jugs of water and use them to keep coolers chilled instead of "wasting" ice which we use in drinks.

We installed a generator stack last year and it's a great addition. We also have an air compressor on the boat so it only takes minutes to fill up the largest floaty toy. Two separate stereo(or combined) systems is also great for the times there's two different age groups on a boat.

Others have said what's most important about a houseboat...a small group of committed owners.

Enjoy your research,
Scott Chico
 
Consider a cruiser?
A houseboat makes the most sense for the great majority of Lake Powell users, but some of us really enjoy a cruiser. Of course they come in all sizes and ages, but may generally be more expensive than a houseboat. If your family/circle of friends is small or if you enjoy taking more trips with smaller groups then you might consider a cruiser. Also, if you like to explore the lake then a cruiser is nice. With a smaller cruiser you can pull into a spot and anchor is 15 minutes and be out in five, so you can move every day traveling at 25 mph.
 
My dad and his buddy bought a 42' 1972 Bullfrog rental in 1974, the boat had two 50hp Bear(?) outboards on it. By todays standards the houseboat wasn't much, but back then it served it's purpose very well with lots of kids, teenagers & many business meetings held down at LP.

We used the Bullfrog buoy field for years, but that became lot of work when we showed up 11pm Friday night. We transferred the boat to the covered slips at Halls Crossing in the late 70's or early 80's.

One of the best features of the boat was the ability to quickly clean it out...a bucket of water swished out the sand from front and poured out the back. The vessel was low maintenance for sure.....which I don't see in many of the newer boats.

I "think" this is it in the picture below, we found it last summer still floating at the buoy field. Our houseboat had a gash on the rear port side from being hit on the buoy field in the 70's and this boat in the picture has a patch in that area.

Its had some modifications throughout the years...roof railing, rear deck additions.



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