Mussels and Septic Tanks

[mtnpull]

Hey, I have been thinking a bit lately about all the houseboats and floating restrooms and septic dumps on the lake. I know, awesome subject to be thinking about. But I'll throw this out there not really knowing exactly how most of the systems work water wise. But I am assuming some of the systems pull lake water to use for the toilets. If this is the case it would pull the microscopic larvae into the tanks. Would the mussels be able to survive? Or do they only filter plankton? Has this been a concern that has been addressed? I imagine that the decon stations do not check or sanitize toilets on boats? Anybody else have thoughts on the matter. I am hoping that they could not survive in that environment.

 

[Pegasus]

I had this exact concern a year or two ago and asked about it on the "old" forum page. I then even went to my holding tank and opened the "sight hole" on top and looked in with a flashlight after I'd cleaned it out at the pumpout - no mussels. I've done this for two years in a row now just to check as I'm curious like you are. As far as I know, there have been no issues with mussels growing in holding tanks on Lake Powell, and I can confirm there are none in my holding tank.

I'm guessing, adding toilet chemical to the head is not allowing mussels to grow in there......or, will they just become Jurasic size once they get used to the chemicals and grow in the bacteria present!!! Oh no!

 

[Dungee]

I had to remind the guy last weekend to check the bilge area on our standard outboard boat... So far a standardization isn’t even being acheived in my opinion. Good luck with stuff like the septic areas....

 

[GET A GRIP]

I have launched from both bullfrog and halls crossing this year. Dozens (100's) of boats have left Lake Powell DIRTY! Nobody at the decontamination stations. NO seals placed on dirty boats. No record of the boats even being on the lake . Quagga mussels will be in every major water in the next 5 years. NO BOAT SHOULD LEAVE LAKE POWELL WITHOUT BEING DECONTAMINATED.

 

[John P Funk]

What good does a Decon do at Lake Powell when you know your next launch is in Colorado? You will just be forced to Decon again because Colorado doesn't respect Powell decon certs(I don't blame them). Clean, Drain, and Dry and be responsible for your own boat. We launch at Farley canyon, you'd like us to drive 90 miles to Bullfrog for a decon, and then go home to Colorado, and then get Decon'd again?

 

[Cutter99]

I just left Bullfrog yesterday and the decon guy said they are only deconning boats that will be launched in Utah their next time. For boats heading to Colorado, they will get checked at their next lake destination. For boats heading to Wyoming, they will get deconned at the state line.
The reason for this (in his words) is that no one state trusts any other states docon procedure. Geez, what a mess.
I don't know how other states deal with it, but I am not optimistic. I was disappointed he didn't decon our boat.
I'll not use it for a few weeks or I would have insisted.

 

[PBH]

We certainly have to take some responsibility upon ourselves. Mandatory decon might sound well and good, but is it realistic? How many boat washes can happen in a day -- or, rather, how many 15 minute boat washes can happen between 4pm - 9pm in the summer when 300 boats per hour are leaving the lake? I don't want to be in that line!!

questions have to be asked. Such questions might be: where are you heading next; when will your boat be used next; etc.

Depending on your answers, the technicians have to make a decision of whether or not your boat should be washed. As stated previously, if your boat is headed to CO, then the technician may very well determine to not waste his time, your time, or the next boat in lines time, and allow CO to decon your boat.

I was disappointed he didn't decon our boat.
I'll not use it for a few weeks or I would have insisted.

you obviously answered the questions by stating that you wouldn't be using your boat prior to the drying period -- and thus, a full decon my not have been necessary. Had you told the technician that you would be using the boat sooner, then they would have cleaned it without any insistence on your part.
Now the responsibility is on you to assure that your boat is clean prior to going somewhere else.

 

[Zman]

Why not every state have inspection/Decon stations at clean lakes/rivers for incoming vessels only. Why spend money on an infected lake when they could put those resources into protecting uncontaminated lakes.

 

[Dungee]

Why not every state have inspection/Decon stations at clean lakes/rivers for incoming vessels only. Why spend money on an infected lake when they could put those resources into protecting uncontaminated lakes.

Because... that makes sense and somewhere some politician or government agency would claim it can’t be done because it would be too expensive even though alternatives already in pace are more pricy.

 

[Cutter99]

We certainly have to take some responsibility upon ourselves. Mandatory decon might sound well and good, but is it realistic? How many boat washes can happen in a day -- or, rather, how many 15 minute boat washes can happen between 4pm - 9pm in the summer when 300 boats per hour are leaving the lake? I don't want to be in that line!!

questions have to be asked. Such questions might be: where are you heading next; when will your boat be used next; etc.

Depending on your answers, the technicians have to make a decision of whether or not your boat should be washed. As stated previously, if your boat is headed to CO, then the technician may very well determine to not waste his time, your time, or the next boat in lines time, and allow CO to decon your boat.



you obviously answered the questions by stating that you wouldn't be using your boat prior to the drying period -- and thus, a full decon my not have been necessary. Had you told the technician that you would be using the boat sooner, then they would have cleaned it without any insistence on your part.
Now the responsibility is on you to assure that your boat is clean prior to going somewhere else.

I should have mentioned a couple other things...
We were the only boat there at the time, no waiting at all.
The tech told us "it would just be a waste of time since the next state will do it anyway".
I didn't tell him I wasn't putting the boat in the water for a few weeks- it didn't matter to him.
And Yes, I'm a responsible boat owner.

 

[Bikes]

We wasted energy and millions in the vain attempt to keep them out and a big waste again trying to keep them in. We need to concentrate our efforts at finding a control method like the bug on salt cedar and the wasp on gypsy moths. It is like all the ridicules feel good efforts to stop global warming when we should learn to live with it since it is global and out of our control and it will get worse.

 

[TR.]

What would happen if you were stopped in a roadside check and have not been deconned?

TR

 

[Ryan]

Because... that makes sense and somewhere some politician or government agency would claim it can’t be done because it would be too expensive even though alternatives already in pace are more pricy.

I would argue that the reason that won’t work is that there are a lot more clean lakes than contaminated. It would intake less resources to properly address Boats leaving the handful of contaminated lakes than stations at the hundreds (or thousands) of clean lakes.

The right response would be a federal one with unified procedures and standards so that each state would have to honor what was done.

And the trouble with just questioning someone when they leave Powell is that maybe their plans change. You go from thinking your next trip with the boat will be back to Powell in 3 weeks to having an opportunity to get on the water sooner at a clean lake and you take your boat out then.

Or people will outright lie about their plans to make things faster for them now.

We tried the “honor system” at Powell. It didn’t work. And it won’t keep other lakes clean either.

 

[PBH]

What would happen if you were stopped in a roadside check and have not been deconned?

TR

Nothing, as long as the boat was drained and it isn't transporting mussels. Now it is up to the boater to honor the drying period.

I would argue that the reason that won’t work is that there are a lot more clean lakes than contaminated.

exactly.
How many lakes are there in Utah alone? How many remote lakes in remote places? How do you man those places, and how do you get a wash station to each? We aren't just talking about State Parks (Utah Lake, Deer Creek, Jordanelle, Otter Creek, Millsite, etc.) but we're also talking about those small impoundments that are not operated by the state (Newcastle Reservoir, Kolob Reservoir, Mill Meadow, Enterprise...) as well as numerous small mountain lakes all over. And that's just Utah. How would you ever place a decon station at every one of them, and operate it?

The right response would be a federal one with unified procedures and standards so that each state would have to honor what was done.

Probably right. Department of Transportation should also be highly involved. This isn't a just a wildlife or water quality issue -- this is a transportation issue!

And the trouble with just questioning someone when they leave Powell is that maybe their plans change. You go from thinking your next trip with the boat will be back to Powell in 3 weeks to having an opportunity to get on the water sooner at a clean lake and you take your boat out then.

This is where boater responsibility comes in to play. We have to honor our obligations to observe the mandatory drying period. If plans change, we must contact a cleaning station and schedule a cleaning. Otherwise, you forego those plan changes and be a responsible boater by observing the mandatory drying period.

Or people will outright lie about their plans to make things faster for them now.

This is the biggest problem. But this will also be the year that the problem is finally seen. Visually. At Lake Powell. This summer is the first summer that the problem will be noticed by nearly all people going to the Lake. With dropping water levels, the mussels are prolific. People will finally see what they do.
But people will still lie. Which baffles me. Maybe a few boat fires, with investigations pointing to mussels as the cause of the fires, will catch more peoples attention?

I was at the lake last summer with some extended family (in-laws....ugh....). When pulling the boat out of the water at the end of the day, the comment was made to me to "tell them that you're coming back tomorrow so they don't have to clean your boat...". I replied and said "I WANT my boat cleaned!".

We can place blame and point fingers all we want. When it comes down to it, it's our responsibility.

 

[gary miller]

Just a few thoughts- Jackson & Yellowstone lakes require inspections before launch,they have a different situation than other lakes- hopefully it works! Boats coming into Idaho from Utah are inspected during regular business hours-not hard to see what's gonna happen there- Wyoming same thing. It would take a major commitment to go 24 hour coverage or required inspection to launch on all lakes-I fear if it does happen it will be to late. I hope the water ski & other types of users are as educated as fishermen. How can the "ballast" bags-or whatever their called used on wake boats be inspected or decontaminated ?

 

[Dungee]

Having it be “our” responsibility crapped the bed and now Powell will never be the same. Man and put high pressure high water temp washers (a simple trailer with a generator and high pressure hose, how expensive can those be?) at each high flow reservoir and state park. Make all the smaller inpounds non boat lakes until you can man them. The issues PBH brought up about man power and resources are fixable and have solutions (he brought up a great point about involving other agencies etc). Once places are infected (which they will at this rate and under current regs) it becomes more expensive by tenfold and there are no solutions...

 

[Powelldreamer]

I happen to agree with mandatory decon when leaving Lake Powell. I also agree that the current decon method leaves a lot to be desired. FYI for those with inboard the mandatory dry time is 30 days year round. Who is really gonna wait 30 days in the boating season to dry their boat? Only solution is mandatory decon. Methodology needs to change. FWIW the decon station at Deer Creek Res in Utah cost the tax payers $500,000 this is basically a connex with 2 heated pressure washers. Not a very economical solution to put at all lakes. Again Mandatory decon should be the battle cry. I am a bigger proponent of a heated tank to back your boat into, run your engine and flush required areas and equipment. I believe this could be done much more economical and efficiently then the current decon procedure.

 

[GregC]

I happen to agree with mandatory decon when leaving Lake Powell. I also agree that the current decon method leaves a lot to be desired. FYI for those with inboard the mandatory dry time is 30 days year round. Who is really gonna wait 30 days in the boating season to dry their boat? Only solution is mandatory decon. Methodology needs to change. FWIW the decon station at Deer Creek Res in Utah cost the tax payers $500,000 this is basically a connex with 2 heated pressure washers. Not a very economical solution to put at all lakes. Again Mandatory decon should be the battle cry. I am a bigger proponent of a heated tank to back your boat into, run your engine and flush required areas and equipment. I believe this could be done much more economical and efficiently then the current decon procedure.

I think that hot water "ear muffs" would work just as well as a "dip tank". (This part serious).

The obvious solution is a different boat for each lake you visit! (Not really).

GregC

 

[PBH]

Having it be “our” responsibility crapped the bed and now Powell will never be the same.

... Make all the smaller inpounds non boat lakes until you can man them. The issues PBH brought up about man power and resources are fixable and have solutions...

Careful what you wish for.

... Once places are infected (which they will at this rate and under current regs) it becomes more expensive by tenfold and there are no solutions...

'

When the threat is realized, water owners will not wait for infection before they take action! Your comment about fixable solutions is spot on, but maybe not in the sense that you are thinking.

As soon as Washington County Water Conservancy District feels that the threat of mussels is too high, they will close Quail Creek, Sand Hollow, and Gunlock to boating. The other reservoirs that WCWCD is planning on building are already slated as "non boating" reservoirs. For now, WCWCD has a nice tax base they can utilize to mitigate potential costs of mussel contamination.

It won't stop there. Places like New Castle and Enterprise cannot afford to have their impoundments infested. As soon as 1 small lake / reservoir used for irrigation is hit, it just might be all over. Those alfalfa growers cannot take a chance of having plugged sprinkler lines due to mussels. They cannot afford to place decon stations at those reservoirs, and they cannot afford to clean and maintain infested reservoirs. Who's going to do that for them, and are they willing to wait for the State or some other agency to do it? No way! As soon as that threat hits a certain level, those reservoirs will get shut down to public recreation. And then it will domino.

We can't sit around and play the blame game, and expect some government agency to step up and stop this. As anglers, boaters, and recreationists this is up to us. We must continue to educate others and do everything we can to stop the spread. We need to push for boat manufacturers to help with this problem by designing better ballast tanks that can effectively be cleaned / drained / dried - and maybe even legislation to force boat manufacturers to help come up with solutions.

Once places are infected (which they will at this rate and under current regs) it becomes more expensive by tenfold and there are no solutions...

Oh, there are solutions. But we don't want to go down that road. The simplest solution involves draining a lake, letting it dry out for a few years, then when the 'all clear' is sounded, they refill but keep the lake closed to the public.

 

[Dungee]

I agree it’s up to us, I really do, but I can only do my part. At the very least make the honor system not so reliant on losers with no clue. As talked about before on here, make some coding system that simply scans your boat, each place you take it afterwards then scans it negating the honor system. A bar code on your registration tag or something would suffice. Computers can do amazing things.