Lithium for houseboat inverter question

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210 FSH said:
Then ask yourself why can’t Enduro meet ABYC standards?

As I stated there are other LFP battery companies besides BB that meet ABYC standards.

I should have mentioned before that the reason ReLion LFP batteries were a no go for me because their heated 12V 100Ah batteries cannot be used in series (my trolling motor is 36V) which will not work for where I live as the shoulder seasons here are in the single digits overnight. I found that very interesting since all other parameters of their BMS were the same.

As a fyi, LFP batteries cannot be charged at .5C below 32° F, they can only be charged at .1C, and below 15° they cannot be charged at all without destroying them, quite a few people have found this out the hard way when they charged their batteries in sub freezing temps and their battery didn’t have a properly designed BMS that prevented charging when the internal temperature was too low.

More and more of the LFP batteries BMS now will not allow charging below 32°, but only a few are produced with internal heaters. LFP batteries are a quantum leap forward in energy storage but they have a few limitations that are overcome with proper design and build.
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Again, I am not bashing or questioning BB. I'm not questioning their product or service qualities. Or even your knowledge of them. Im not saying that Enduro's product is/can or can't meet the standard.
If someone is on an approval board for a certain product, and that same someone owns/ runs a company that produces that same product, that doesn't make you raise an eyebrow at least a little bit? It's kinda like having a lawyer represent you, but his brother is the one your trying to bring charges against, isn't it?
 
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CATD8RII said:
Again, I am not bashing or questioning BB. I'm not questioning their product or service qualities. Or even your knowledge of them. Im not saying that Enduro's product is/can or can't meet the standard.
If someone is on an approval board for a certain product, and that same someone owns/ runs a company that produces that same product, that doesn't make you raise an eyebrow at least a little bit? It's kinda like having a lawyer represent you, but his brother is the one your trying to bring charges against, isn't it?
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I understand where you are coming from but I do not agree with your analogy on a lawyer / prosecutor brother situation as that is a one on one affair not a board of directors who all vote on standards.

If the ABYC standards board was just one person, then I’d be suspicious. I do not have a problem with such a highly qualified SME (subject matter expert) The Journey to Dragonfly: CEO Denis Phares's Story whatever the item is.

I posted this information here to benefit others who may want to convert their house batteries to LFP with a company that meets ABYC standards. Everyone who wants to go this route should do their homework and ask a lot of questions. If you want to see my journey check out this thread; Conversion to LiFePo batteries These batteries performance is really astounding, 2.5-3 the energy storage, 5 times faster charging-which means with the correct battery charger you can charge your batteries with 5 times less generator run time, 1/5th the weight of equal storage capacity when compared to flooded lead acid batteries, 10 times the life expectancy, and the cheapest per KWh in battery storage capacity.
 
I replaced my lead acid trolling motors with 2 Amazon Vatrerer 100 AH batteries last year. They were around $200, and have cold weather protection and Bluetooth. No issues. They work great! The BB batteries are probably better.. but not 4x better 🤣
 
210 FSH said:
I understand where you are coming from but I do not agree with your analogy on a lawyer / prosecutor brother situation as that is a one on one affair not a board of directors who all vote on standards.

If the ABYC standards board was just one person, then I’d be suspicious. I do not have a problem with such a highly qualified SME (subject matter expert) The Journey to Dragonfly: CEO Denis Phares's Story whatever the item is.

I posted this information here to benefit others who may want to convert their house batteries to LFP with a company that meets ABYC standards. Everyone who wants to go this route should do their homework and ask a lot of questions. If you want to see my journey check out this thread; Conversion to LiFePo batteries These batteries performance is really astounding, 2.5-3 the energy storage, 5 times faster charging-which means with the correct battery charger you can charge your batteries with 5 times less generator run time, 1/5th the weight of equal storage capacity when compared to flooded lead acid batteries, 10 times the life expectancy, and the cheapest per KWh in battery storage capacity.
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Ok
 
Most fires you see are from the older LI (Lithium Ion) batteries, newer batteries are LifePO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) and are much much more stable. On top of that, most of the reputable LifePO4 batteries have a BMS system. Either way someone who knows what they are doing should always install the batteries, not doing so could cause a safety issue issue whether that be with lead acid or LifePO4. I love my LifePO4 batteries I installed in my Moho 2 years ago. (4) 200AH Amperetimes, plus 1000W solar.
 
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davew said:
Last year we installed Lithium batteriers for our inverter system -- they work great!
we installed 3 enduro 12 v 300 amp hr batteries -- model EN300BAJA --- we picked those because they were american made, had built in BMS and the person that sold them to us ( based in Grand Junction) relly sounded like he knew what he was talking about ----
Well -- we had the boat inspected for insurance purposes, and the inspector had LOTS of issues ---
We can not go back to the guy that sold them to us because he has sense passed away, and the store is closed.

the inspector is having us get a written approval report from a " Marine electrician or a professional in the lithium industry, or a professional electrician familiar with lithium systems" needs to include a schematics of the installation near the system.

anyone have any suggestion for such a person?
we are in Bullfrog

Thanks,
Dave
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Call both the battery and inverter manufacturers and get the gauge of wire and wiring specs required for the installation. If that doesn’t work, call Lake Powell Marine in Page. Since you bought the batteries in Grand Junction, I assume your boat is at Bullfrog, correct? Here’s a guide for wire gauge.

Current (A)Length In Feet
0-44-77-1010-1515-2020-2525-30
0-516 AWG16 AWG16 AWG16 AWG14 AWG12 AWG12 AWG
5-1016 AWG16 AWG14 AWG12 AWG10 AWG10 AWG10 AWG
10-1514 AWG14 AWG12 AWG10 AWG10 AWG8 AWG8 AWG
15-2014 AWG12 AWG12 AWG10 AWG8 AWG6 AWG6 AWG
20-2512 AWG10 AWG10 AWG8 AWG6 AWG6 AWG6 AWG
25-3010 AWG10 AWG10 AWG8 AWG6 AWG6 AWG4 AWG
30-408 AWG8 AWG8 AWG6 AWG6 AWG4 AWG4 AWG
40-508 AWG8 AWG6 AWG6 AWG4 AWG4 AWG4 AWG
50-606 AWG6 AWG6 AWG4 AWG4 AWG2 AWG2 AWG
60-706 AWG6 AWG4 AWG4 AWG2 AWG2 AWG1/0 AWG
70-804 AWG4 AWG4 AWG4 AWG2 AWG2 AWG1/0 AWG
80-904 AWG4 AWG4 AWG2 AWG2 AWG1/0 AWG1/0 AWG
90-1002 AWG2 AWG2 AWG2 AWG2 AWG1/0 AWG1/0 AWG
100-1202 AWG2 AWG2 AWG2 AWG1/0 AWG1/0 AWG2/0 AWG
120-1501/0 AWG1/0 AWG1/0 AWG1/0 AWG1/0 AWG2/0 AWG4/0 AWG
150-2002/0 AWG2/0 AWG2/0 AWG2/0 AWG2/0 AWG4/0 AWG4/0 AWG

PM me if you need a more details.

BTW - our system uses a 12.5 kW battery system and wire gauge is quite important with lithium systems.
 
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Dorado said:
I replaced my lead acid trolling motors with 2 Amazon Vatrerer 100 AH batteries last year. They were around $200, and have cold weather protection and Bluetooth. No issues. They work great! The BB batteries are probably better.. but not 4x better 🤣
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Really glad they are working for you, they sound like a deal but small fishing boats w/ trolling motors don't have to pass extensive professional marine surveys to the satisfaction of an insurance company putting hundreds of thousands of dollars at risk by insuring your houseboat against damage. If somebody invests in noncompliant batteries they could end up like the guy who started this thread trying to find a way to pass their inspection without a lot of success. I'm glad to hear about this on WW, otherwise I would not have known about the standards
 
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