Lithium Batteries

If you are doing this on houseboat and need/plan to have survey done for insurance, I read some past articles where the survey found issues with the lithium wiring/requirements vs AGM's. I dont recall all of it, but just keep that in mind if you are swapping them out and what might be required by marine survey..
 
P Dub said:
All in about $2,000 and over 100lbs lighter!
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Prices have come way down. I am in the process right now. Two LiTime group 24 100 amp hour plus a NoCo charger is less than $800. I don’t know if you would spend much less on AGM.
 
Ryan said:
Prices have come way down. I am in the process right now. Two LiTime group 24 100 amp hour plus a NoCo charger is less than $800. I don’t know if you would spend much less on AGM.
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You Reata must be about same vintage as mine?
The Recreation charger is not selectable for lithium darn it…
 
SBennett said:
You Reata must be about same vintage as mine?
The Recreation charger is not selectable for lithium darn it…
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My Reata was a 2006. I sold it a few years back and am now in a 08 Lund 186GL. Like Dungee says, I think the Noco is the way to go. I installed one in my Malibu two years ago, had one bank go bad, and they were easy to deal with for warranty.
 
mcpltret said:
hello sr.rbb,
good questions, will give an add’l .02c from a non linguist, but i
am a ling cod fan.
and smokin joe, as everyone in this thread, have facts at hand. all has been
great info.
for same same battery sizes, lithiums weigh ~ 50% less. that’s
huge.
lithiums last ~ 4x longer & used mostly for elec trolling motors, & they recharge
significantly faster.
good lithiums should last 10+ years, vs 3-4 w/lead acid. yes, lead acid could last
longer w/excellent care, but i personally don’t trust them to do so b/c of the
extreme summer heat in sw utah & powell area.
generally speaking, lead acid deep cycles are used for trolling motors & cranking batts like in your
car for boat engine use. these two types of lead acid batts are built different
and not optimum for crossover use (ie, lead acid starter batt used for elec trolling motors or deep cycle
for cranking engines).
generally, as i understand electricity….ie., only once discover why not to put your
finger in electrical socket at home…..a standard 12.5v lead acid needs a charger
inputting ~13.5v to recharge ( and is what many boat engines provide.
12.5 volt lithiums, however, for a full charge need 14.5+ volt charge, and hence
the boat’s charging system(s) must account for this. the newer chargers can
charge the two different type batts, usually from shore power. afloat, your big boat engine keeps
the lead acid starter battery charged, but not the lithiums which are usually up front and
are charged directly when back at camp. additionally, when trolling, a kicker motor such
as a 9.9hp won’t charge any lithium if it was wired to it.
next item, will the big boat engines’ alternator supply a full charge to a lithium it is wired to?
that depends on the individual motor & wiring, & how many batts. but it appears some on this thread
are doing just that, which i’m glad to hear.
and why not inexpensive costco batts? another good question to ponder. our batts in the back
of our lund, brings out the proverbial sailors language in me (which i’m not a sailor). small
hole w/two heavy batteries needing to be checked twice/yr for distilled water fills, then not
mixing up the wires, leaving one unattached (visibility is not good in those very small transom
caves that take a toll on my knees, hips, & shoulders), etc. lithiums at 25 lb are easy to move
around & are basically maintenance free.
lithiums discharge much slower and you can take them down to a very low voltage w/out damaging
them. lead acid are just the opposite (see attachment), and can be permanently damaged easily
if not monitoring them.
but yes, 3-4 costco batts/10 years would be less expensive, but not by much. lithiums don’t
incur cavecussing and motrin, either.
summary, we installed a newer 4 channel charger that has individual channel adjustments
(lead acid and lithium settings). two are set for lithium up front, two set for the lead acid batts in back.
the engine only charges the lead acid batts (both the 175hp & 9.9hp), so once underway the lithiums
are on their own & recharged back at camp w/plug in which will charge all 4 batts.
in closing, you ain’t a naivete lad, but you do need a recharge. i’m about to plug in myself. our charging
systems are wearing out. and this is why the convenience of minimal maintenance, less boat weight, and
4x usage before any interstate battery purchases @ costco is worth it once the big bite wears off.
this is a bit discombobulated, but my nightly med internal alarm has been going off, as i have too
quickly turned into my grandparents.
cheers to all.
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I went waaay down the proverbial rabbit hole when I switched over to lithiums for the troller and this is a pretty good summary of my mindset that convinced me to pull the trigger on the lithiums.

I have never really had terrible luck with lead acids, usually 6-8 years is pretty common for me and, actually, the starting batteries in my diesel truck are currently still the factory cheapos that came in the truck when I bought it new at the end of march 2019. When it comes to the boat batteries I take on Powell, I don't go with something not proven. There are a lot of positive reviews of the Litime's out there, I just was not ready to commit to using them for the main engine. When I bought mine, I watched for them to go on sale and picked up 2 100ah batteries for just under $500 and at the time, Optima blue tops were the other batteries on my list and I believe they were around $300+/- each, so it would have actually cost me more to stay with lead acid.

I am planning to switch all electronics to a house battery (it will be lithium) and use the lead acid for cranking only, still not ready to commit to lithium for cranking, even though I have had great luck with them for the trolling motor.

edit: I also forgot to add that after switching to the lithiums and actually feeling the weight difference, I would have chose them again based on that alone. Definitely something to consider if you have to try to maneuver them into a tight spot.
 
Squirrel said:
I have 1, 3 year old, LiTime 100 amp battery (non Bluetooth) that I am not sure of it's condition. It doesn't seem to last very long in my Lance Camper, only using LED lighting, propane fridge and water pump. I haven't found anyone in the Denver area that can "load test" a lithium battery for me. Other than sending it back, what options do I have? Sq
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Hey buddy, it sounds like you might have a stray draw somewhere. It should last a long time with that little usage. You could always throw a small solar panel up. I have 2 100ah and 250w charger and I’m always good, including my inverter use at night. You could also throw in a shunt and then you would know for sure.

TR
 
Marty said:
I use two 100 amp 12 volt for 24 volt trolling motor. I am concerned with running full throttle for more than short bursts. Read that not all motors can be operated long term at full throttle without damage. Work great. Have a 45 amp I put in a Goal Zero case when old battery became weak. For night fishing. Will likely spring for Lithium for next starting batt. All LiTime. Also bought a 10 amp charger from them to supplement my 5 amp NOCO charger with Lithium setting. I depend on my handheld volt meter to monitor state of charge. Using Lithium slightly different than AGM according to what I have read.
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Sorry I’m late to the party on this thread. Minn kota has a bulletin on lifepo4, they say not to go over 8 for sustained use. Lifepo4 give out the same charge until it doesn’t and then it’s done, the BMS shuts it off. They anticipate the lead acid drain so it doesn’t hurt to go big on them for longer use. I think I posted this awhile back, but be careful with it as a cranking motor. Some are motors are not set up for handling the BMS shutting off and the back charge can blow the electrical system. FWIW I have 2 Chins (battery brand) on my boat with a Terrova and use the heck out of them and can go 3 days without a charge, and I am not recharging them while running.

TR
 
This is exactly the thread I need. Thinking about updating my electrical system.

Wondering if any of you might have any best practices suggestions?

Current system is one cranking battery AGM. This runs all electrical, pumps, screen, lights, power steering, etc.
Then I have 3 12 volt lead acid batteries in series for my 36 volt Terrova. Which means I rely on that AGM for just about everything except trolling with the bow mount.

Been reading up on the Charge by Power Pole. Seems like a pretty slick system that can manage and transfer power between batteries as needed. It becomes the only charger needed from shore power (so I’d likely retire my 4 cell charger from 2011 that came stock in the boat) it can charge up all batteries on the fly passing energy from the alternator through the main AGM cranking battery and it acts as an emergency back up as it can move power to the cranking battery if drained from the trolling batteries. Kind of anmazing and also pricey. Especially when considering the cost of lithium batteries.

Curious if anyone has this system and how it’s worked for them.

My 2 phase plan is to install the Charge and run my existing batteries until it’s time to replace them. Then I’ll go to a 3 battery system as follows:

AGM deep cycle that handles starts, builge and power steering.

One Dual Purpose lithium house battery via LiTime. Dual purpose as it’s capable of large power draws like engine starts but also can run electronics at small draw for a long time. This house battery will handle everything else electrical plus it will have a surplus of power to pull from or recharge the other batteries via the functionality of the Charge system.

And finally one 50 or 60 AH 36 volt battery for the trolling motor only.

I think this setup should cover me for multi day trips without shore power charging. I like the idea because each battery has a dedicated purpose and any excess power can be shuffled with the Charge system as needed.

At some point I’ll also update my electronics. But I know how to catch fish with or without screens. I don’t really know how to get unstuck (easily) if I loose power or have a malfunction of my main battery.
Any holes in this plan?
 
FishnFly said:
This is exactly the thread I need. Thinking about updating my electrical system.

Wondering if any of you might have any best practices suggestions?

Current system is one cranking battery AGM. This runs all electrical, pumps, screen, lights, power steering, etc.
Then I have 3 12 volt lead acid batteries in series for my 36 volt Terrova. Which means I rely on that AGM for just about everything except trolling with the bow mount.

Been reading up on the Charge by Power Pole. Seems like a pretty slick system that can manage and transfer power between batteries as needed. It becomes the only charger needed from shore power (so I’d likely retire my 4 cell charger from 2011 that came stock in the boat) it can charge up all batteries on the fly passing energy from the alternator through the main AGM cranking battery and it acts as an emergency back up as it can move power to the cranking battery if drained from the trolling batteries. Kind of anmazing and also pricey. Especially when considering the cost of lithium batteries.

Curious if anyone has this system and how it’s worked for them.

My 2 phase plan is to install the Charge and run my existing batteries until it’s time to replace them. Then I’ll go to a 3 battery system as follows:

AGM deep cycle that handles starts, builge and power steering.

One Dual Purpose lithium house battery via LiTime. Dual purpose as it’s capable of large power draws like engine starts but also can run electronics at small draw for a long time. This house battery will handle everything else electrical plus it will have a surplus of power to pull from or recharge the other batteries via the functionality of the Charge system.

And finally one 50 or 60 AH 36 volt battery for the trolling motor only.

I think this setup should cover me for multi day trips without shore power charging. I like the idea because each battery has a dedicated purpose and any excess power can be shuffled with the Charge system as needed.

At some point I’ll also update my electronics. But I know how to catch fish with or without screens. I don’t really know how to get unstuck (easily) if I loose power or have a malfunction of my main battery.
Any holes in this plan?
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My troller is only a 24v terrova and I debated going with a dedicated 24v battery, I also debated pretty seriously about going with 2-24v in parallel but ultimately decided to stick with 2-12v in series for the simple fact that if I was ever stranded with a dead cranking battery, I could still jump off one of the trolling motor batteries or simply swap one out to get running again. Based on the nature of Powell and the potential to be in serious trouble without that option I opted to stick with the ability to bail myself out of at least one jam vs having the extra amp hours of the 2-24's. Just some food for thought.

As for the Charge system, I cannot offer any input although power pole has some pretty good reviews in general.
 
FishnFly said:
And finally one 50 or 60 AH
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I’m updating my system soon. 24V Terrova I’m going with two 100 AH 12v so I can just basically swap batteries and on board charger.

The difference in price between 50 AH and 100 AH is insignificant. With that the case, why wouldn’t you go with the higher Aah? What’s the downside?

I’m also leaning towards replacing the starting battery with LifePo4 mainly for the weight savings. But I need to make sure that the l4 verado will be happy with that.
 
Ryan said:
I’m updating my system soon. 24V Terrova I’m going with two 100 AH 12v so I can just basically swap batteries and on board charger.

The difference in price between 50 AH and 100 AH is insignificant. With that the case, why wouldn’t you go with the higher Aah? What’s the downside?

I’m also leaning towards replacing the starting battery with LifePo4 mainly for the weight savings. But I need to make sure that the l4 verado will be happy with that.
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I see your point and would definitely go bigger on trolling battery or put two of them in as I currently have space for 4 batteries. I haven’t done a ton of research other than LiTime and they have a 50 or 60 AH 36 volt. If they have something larger and it’s not too big for the space. I will go with that. Or could by two 60’s and run them in parallel.
The main reason I think I’d be fine with a smaller AH trolling battery is because the LiTime Dual Purpose house battery is massive at 165 AH. So if I do run the trolling battery low. That house battery can move power to the trolling battery.
When I step up my electronics. I may then need more power, so maybe I should build the system out the gate for that plan. But with one screen and some rarely used other electronics. That Dual purpose 165AH is a beast and would have a lot of power left over. Plus it’s an emergency cranking battery in the event the AGM failed completely.
 
Ryan said:
I’m updating my system soon. 24V Terrova I’m going with two 100 AH 12v so I can just basically swap batteries and on board charger.

The difference in price between 50 AH and 100 AH is insignificant. With that the case, why wouldn’t you go with the higher Aah? What’s the downside?

I’m also leaning towards replacing the starting battery with LifePo4 mainly for the weight savings. But I need to make sure that the l4 verado will be happy with that.
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Joe Wilson said:
My troller is only a 24v terrova and I debated going with a dedicated 24v battery, I also debated pretty seriously about going with 2-24v in parallel but ultimately decided to stick with 2-12v in series for the simple fact that if I was ever stranded with a dead cranking battery, I could still jump off one of the trolling motor batteries or simply swap one out to get running again. Based on the nature of Powell and the potential to be in serious trouble without that option I opted to stick with the ability to bail myself out of at least one jam vs having the extra amp hours of the 2-24's. Just some food for thought.

As for the Charge system, I cannot offer any input although power pole has some pretty good reviews in general.
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I think there’s a lot of great use case scenarios for keeping two batteries and running in series for the higher voltage needs. My Terrova says it can do 36v or 24v. And I’ve thought about dropping it to 24v setup similar to yours. Some say that there’s a noticeable difference in thrust and that the motor ends up draining the two batteries faster specific to this Terrova. Not sure if this is true but it’s enough to make me pause.
If I step it down to 24v (2 batteries vs. 3) then leaves a space open for a house battery.

It seems like there are many ways to skin this cat.

Priorities for me:

Isolation of jobs per battery.
Multiple chemistries. Not full lithium yet (unclear if my 2011 300 Merc Verado will like lithium).
Emergency battery on board that can handle cranking if main cranking battery fails.
Multi day moderate to heavy use without shore power recharge (Powell specific)

and

It’d be nice to be able to move all that power around as needed and recharge in full or partially all batteries on board with the alternator = Charge by Power Pole
 
You are right, there are a lot of different ways to skin that cat.
One thing I'm gonna assume now since you mentioned your terrova allowing the option to use 24v or 36v is that your troller is a newer quest model. If so, it is brushless and you can ignore the earlier advice about prolonged use over speed setting 8.
 
Joe Wilson said:
I'm on season 3 or 4 with Litime's for my 24v Terrova (running 2-12v batteries). No complaints at all.
I have never run them out in a day of fishing, trolling and using spot-lock. Mine are pre bluetooth so the usage is a little harder to track, but I've yet to run them down even to the point of slowed/reduced performance. I can't speak to their charger (I'm using the minnkota onboard that came with my boat (it is the lithium compatible model)
After a day of fishing at Powell, I charge them with a small gas generator for an hour or two back at camp (if I remember, haha) and even on a 12 day trip I haven't managed to kill them.
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Ditto Joe, I'm in my 3rd season on the same setup as you but with EcoWorthy rather than Litime. Last June at Powell I wanted to see how far I could push them and I went from 6a-9pm on day one and 6a-10p on day 2 until they stopped. Fished steady the entire time with spotlock and lots of trolling crankbaits at 2.5-3mph. Comparing them to my old Lead Acid system it makes me tear up a little...haha
 
Joe Wilson said:
You are right, there are a lot of different ways to skin that cat.
One thing I'm gonna assume now since you mentioned your terrova allowing the option to use 24v or 36v is that your troller is a newer quest model. If so, it is brushless and you can ignore the earlier advice about prolonged use over speed setting 8.
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I just found my receipt from Scheels for the purchase. In 2023 I bought the Terrova with Ipilot link MDI with 112lbs thrust for a 36volt system. I’m unclear why I thought this system could do either 24 or 36. Maybe it’s just that they sell a lower thrust model for a 24volt system.
I also thought it was brushless. It’s not.

So thank you @Joe Wilson for helping me not blow up my bow mount with my soon to be new lithium batteries.
 
FishnFly said:
I just found my receipt from Scheels for the purchase. In 2023 I bought the Terrova with Ipilot link MDI with 112lbs thrust for a 36volt system. I’m unclear why I thought this system could do either 24 or 36. Maybe it’s just that they sell a lower thrust model for a 24volt system.
I also thought it was brushless. It’s not.

So thank you @Joe Wilson for helping me not blow up my bow mount with my soon to be new lithium batteries.
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I had the lithium’s on my Tracker and 1st time out they fried the Co-Pilot board on my Power Drive V-2 (this co-pilot isn’t made anymore, the one with the Flat Plug, not Round. Sq
 
Squirrel said:
I had the lithium’s on my Tracker and 1st time out they fried the Co-Pilot board on my Power Drive V-2 (this co-pilot isn’t made anymore, the one with the Flat Plug, not Round. Sq
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That’s no bueno. I’m hopeful this Terrova can handle the lithiums. I’ll keep the level 8 or higher speeds for too long thing in mind as well.
 
Well I was about to pull the trigger later today and Squirrel's comment about cooking his trolling motor made me nervous! I run a basic 24v minn kota fortrex. Is any running lithium with this trolling motor? No spot lock, basic foot pedal.
 
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