Lake Powell HOA

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Gem Morris said:
Why do we even need antelope public ramp? $75M would be much better spent on Castle Rock Cut. People use the antelope public ramp (when it’s available) to avoid some of the Maytag straits. If the CRC were open it wouldn’t matter. $75M spent on the antelope public ramp is a total waste compared to how happy boaters would be if the cut was open. Am I wrong? What am I missing here?

Further, there’s already many ramps on the south end anyway. One more in that area is completely negligible.

Put to a vote of all the boaters who use PageWahweap you can bet that more than 95% would rather have the cut open than the Antelope public ramp deepened
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And put to a vote of all the boaters that use the antelope ramp and they would rather see it lengthened... it's all about your perspective.
 
Gem Morris said:
Why do we even need antelope public ramp? $75M would be much better spent on Castle Rock Cut. People use the antelope public ramp (when it’s available) to avoid some of the Maytag straits. If the CRC were open it wouldn’t matter. $75M spent on the antelope public ramp is a total waste compared to how happy boaters would be if the cut was open. Am I wrong? What am I missing here?

Further, there’s already many ramps on the south end anyway. One more in that area is completely negligible.

Put to a vote of all the boaters who use PageWahweap you can bet that more than 95% would rather have the cut open than the Antelope public ramp deepened
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There's a big sunk cost to ride on all of the infrastructure around Antelope. Sucks to have a whole marina with shore side boat yards but no way to launch anything, plus the whole parking lot going to waste. Investing in that is an easier line item to sell than the ongoing process of barging excavation equipment to dig the cut deeper and deeper as the lake levels find new lows year after year. Plus, if they're planning on having to operate at dead pool then the cut can't stay viable no matter which way you cut that cookie. An overhauled AP ramp theoretically could since it's right on the river.
 
I've heard stories from extreme old timers that way before Antelope they used to launch off of some big unimproved dune area near there. Anybody know what theyvwerebtalking about?
 
I've mentioned this before, but Dead Pool is a bit of a misnomer. Downstream flows do not stop. They just become equal to total inflows (technically minus Page's municipal straw, I believe). So as long as water arrives from the Colorado, San Juan, Escalante, Dirty Devil, and other tributaries, it will pass through to the lower basin, Grand Canyon, Lake Mead, and beyond.
 
Marina Bum said:
The chart she presented publicly below is marked BOR so I think I can share it here. It says they are planning for water access (I think that means ramp access) to 3450 under that scenario.

View attachment 32517
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Great information and reconnaissance Marina Bum! Thank you. There's a lot to digest here, but I'll start with orienting people with what a lake at dead pool (3370) and at 3450 looks like.

At Dead Pool, the lake would have a "dead" storage of about 1.7 maf. Unless the dam were modified in some way, or unless a drain/release system were installed to bypass the dam at its base, there would be no release into Marble Canyon if the lake remained at that level. That's why it's called "dead pool." In 1963, when the lake first rose to the dead pool level of 3370, it got as far as Smith Fork. Today, with sedimentation, it probably doesn't get quite as far, but close, since most sediment falls out way before that. But as the years go on, the sediment slug would tend to move downstream from there. In the San Juan, the lake reached as far as about Desha Canyon at 3370. Today, it wouldn't get that far because of sedimentation. Maybe to Cha?

Then there's the "sustainable water access" level of 3450 that was identified. That implies a "live" storage of about 2.1 maf, which could be released downstream through existing works. This is in addition to the 1.7 maf of dead storage described above, which couldn't be released downstream. When the lake first rose in 1963-64, when it reached 3400 it was in what's now Good Hope Bay at the mouth of Ticaboo Creek. As for 3450, that was at about the mouth of Trachyte Creek. But with over 100 feet (in places more than 150) of sediment in the vicinity of Trachyte Creek/White Canyon/Hite, the lake would effectively end somewhere in Good Hope Bay, with a wide and shallow delta dominating the northern half of the bay. The southern half might still be usable but very shallow. The concept of trying to launch boats at Blue Notch or anywhere along the northeastern shore of Good Hope Bay would be thing of the past.
 
This topic of 'dead pool' raises so many questions.....would the lake become hotter in the summer? How would that affect algae, fish, mussels? And how is the Grand Canyon affected? Are there enough other tributaries to keep the canyon alive and well? Plus, is the western power grid able to take up the slack if the dam stops producing power? :unsure:

Again, we hope it doesn't get near it......but certainly an important discussion.
 
Is this a house boat page or a fishing page??? Maybe a wino's page. This constant " It should be my way or know way" is lame!!! I listen to these people down south constantly bitch and wine.... First it was the rise in your dock fees, but know you want to spend money on an HOA. And a $75,000,000 boat ramp for the privileged is absolutely insane!!!!
 
I was also on this call and can add a little bit more info based on what I understood/reading between the lines.
  • I do know the Houseboat Owners HOA does want to include houseboat owners from the north end of the lake (Halls/Bullfrog) and there were owners from that area on the call. The only requirement to join is that you are an owner or a shareholder on a houseboat located anywhere on the lake. Two of the directors of the HOA are from Antelope, one is from Wahweap, and one is at Bullfrog. They are trying to have representation from everywhere on the lake.
  • Michele didn't go into a great amount of detail on the plans for the Antelope Ramp, just that it had been budgeted for and that they were working on the enviormental impact portion and waiting on engineering, but there have been potential plans posted here and other places online. My understanding of why its going to cost $75M is because its not just an extention to the end of the ramp. I don't think thats possible due to the steep drop off into the canyon. I believe their plan is to essentially rip up the current ramp and completely re-grade it from the top so that its at a much steeper angle. She said their target access level was 3450.
  • She said the estimated cost to put in a mid lake refueling station was $30M. They have been working with Aramark, but taking into account the cost to contruct and operate that marina, they can't find a way to make it commercially viable. The money would have to come from somewhere else/the government. It seemed like she believed that with all the clawback of funding it wasn't going to happen anytime soon but said if the Great American Outdoor Act was reauthorized that there might be potential to seek funding through that.
  • When asked about spending money on the Antelope Ramp vs mid lake refueling station, her response was that the top priority for the NPS at the moment is to provide lake access. Their thoughts are that if there is no or limited lake access due to dropping water levels, a mid lake marina becomes less important. I know many disagree with how Antelope fits in with that, that's just what was said on the call.
 
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swoosh said:
I was also on this call and can add a little bit more info based on what I understood/reading between the lines.
  • I do know the Houseboat Owners HOA does want to include houseboat owners from the north end of the lake (Halls/Bullfrog) and there were owners from that area on the call. The only requirement to join is that you are an owner or a shareholder on a houseboat located anywhere on the lake. Two of the directors of the HOA are from Antelope, one is from Wahweap, and one is at Bullfrog. They are trying to have representation from everywhere on the lake.
  • Michele didn't go into a great amount of detail on the plans for the Antelope Ramp, just that it had been budgeted for and that they were working on the enviormental impact portion and waiting on engineering, but there have been potential plans posted here and other places online. My understanding of why its going to cost $75M is because its not just an extention to the end of the ramp. I don't think thats possible due to the steep drop off into the canyon. I believe their plan is to essentially rip up the current ramp and completely re-grade it from the top so that its at a much steeper angle. She said their target access level was 3450.
  • She said the estimated cost to put in a mid lake refueling station was $30M. They have been working with Aramark, but taking into account the cost to contruct and operate that marina, they can't find a way to make it commercially viable. The money would have to come from somewhere else/the government. It seemed like she believed that with all the clawback of funding it wasn't going to happen anytime soon but said if the Great American Outdoor Act was reauthorized that there might be potential to seek funding through that.
  • When asked about spending money on the Antelope Ramp vs mid lake refueling station, her response was that the top priority for the NPS at the moment is to provide lake access. Their thoughts are that if there is no or limited lake access due to dropping water levels, a mid lake marina becomes less important. I know many disagree with how Antelope fits in with that, that's just what was said on the call.
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Thanks Swoosh for your report about the meeting too.

The HOA responded to my email where I asked if I could share a link so you could all watch the video too. They had more questions, I'm waiting to hear back,

If you want to reach them they have an email but not a website. The only requirement to join is that you own a houseboat or a share of one. You start the process with an email requesting membershio and then I think you have to prove up your ownership. These are a sharp bunch of guys, very good at meetings, probably business professionals and attorneys if you ask me. Their address is lakepowellhoa@gmail.com in case anyone is interested
 
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I had already joined so I just got the link in my email. There is no cost to join. Just need to be a shareholder/owner of a houseboat anywhere on the lake as has been mentioned. If you email them at the email that Marina Bum posted they will email you a form to fill out with your houseboat info and add you.
 
A fellow Wordling sent me this, it's a long read but it's interesting that out of these shortages may come a new direction of water management among the Basin States. I still believe the Feds can't hand out more water than they get so to me it's high time to change from guaranteed acre feet to a percentage of the flow that year. (minus enough of course to keep some in the reservoirs for a non rainy day)

Here is the synopsis, the link is below that

IMG_8616.png
www.azcentral.com

As time grows short for a Colorado River deal, Trump is set to fill vacant water post

The Trump administration is aiming to complete its team of top officials managing the Colorado River, as states struggle to strike a water deal.
www.azcentral.com
 
I’m all for a functional Antelope ramp. It costs us most of an hour to get there from Stateline, and Waweap bay seems less and less viable. Even if they did dig the cut deep enough, which would make it miles long, it’s gonna be a slot canyon with stuff falling off the walls constantly. $75 million doesn’t surprise me. Look up the price tag for a mile of freeway in Phoenix and it seems quasi reasonable. And my pet idea of bridging to Antelope would be spectacularly expensive by comparison. Maybe pave a route to Warm Creek, like the river runners used to do?
 
VikingRanch said:
I’m all for a functional Antelope ramp. It costs us most of an hour to get there from Stateline, and Waweap bay seems less and less viable. Even if they did dig the cut deep enough, which would make it miles long, it’s gonna be a slot canyon with stuff falling off the walls constantly. $75 million doesn’t surprise me. Look up the price tag for a mile of freeway in Phoenix and it seems quasi reasonable. And my pet idea of bridging to Antelope would be spectacularly expensive by comparison. Maybe pave a route to Warm Creek, like the river runners used to do?
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I have been curious about the idea of the old roads making a comeback as water levels drop as a way to launch kayaks in more remote places of the lake to save hours or days of paddling when camping that way. NPS isn't too keen on that type of shoreline access though, which is probably reasonable when you think about the lowest common denominators will attempt on that kind of primitive access.
 
Cheef Baconator said:
I have been curious about the idea of the old roads making a comeback as water levels drop as a way to launch kayaks in more remote places of the lake to save hours or days of paddling when camping that way. NPS isn't too keen on that type of shoreline access though, which is probably reasonable when you think about the lowest common denominators will attempt on that kind of primitive access.
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I think lake Mojave could be a good example. On the West side There is drive in camping that is deep in the country, and there are lots of options, so the use gets spread out. Roads mostly aren’t up to toy haulers, so it’s tents and truck campers, and boats that launched elsewhere and came up lake.

If they opened up Powell completely for off hwy access, go anywhere you please, the first 15-20 miles from pavement would get hammered, and there would be barely any use beyond that point.
 
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