Ice, Coolers, Freezers, etc

Status
Not open for further replies.
I ran into a generator situation like this a few years ago at the Farley Campground(Ha, Ha) a fisherman came in at dark and started his generator to charge his trolling batteries(understandable). I was tenting about 200 yds away and the thing was driving me crazy. At around 10:30 I knocked on his door and said, "Would you mind shutting off your generator, I'm having a tough time sleeping." His response, "I do mind.", with the addition of the door slamming in my face. Sound carries in the canyons, and you may be affecting other people without being aware.
Not trying to get into a pissing match here. But there is a significant difference between running at 1030 at night and during the day. I don't run them at night.

And I make it a point to camp a long way from any other boats. Last week up the San Juan, I would estimate there wasn't another camp within 2 miles. Prior trip was up to GHB, not another houseboat in sight. Trip before that was in the Rincon. Same situation.

It would be different if we camped near others. We deliberately choose sites for their isolation.
 
I ran into a generator situation like this a few years ago at the Farley Campground(Ha, Ha) a fisherman came in at dark and started his generator to charge his trolling batteries(understandable). I was tenting about 200 yds away and the thing was driving me crazy. At around 10:30 I knocked on his door and said, "Would you mind shutting off your generator, I'm having a tough time sleeping." His response, "I do mind.", with the addition of the door slamming in my face. Sound carries in the canyons, and you may be affecting other people without being aware.
This might be a good time to let him know to be careful -- sound vibrations like that have a way of shaking drain plugs loose in the middle of the night.
 
Ryan simply stated his process/technique out on the lake with what sound (sts) like relatively quiet and efficient generators. This is perfectly acceptable and legal at GCNRA.

Use it or no but the incense at his post seems a bit excessive.

This post is rife with opinion but short on "Facts!, Hercule, Facts!" to steal a line from Peter Sellers as Inspector Clouseau. That opinion opined profusely below is that Ryan is ignorant for using his own perfectly acceptable and legal process because Grant Stevens - USBR does not approve.
I'm glad I didn't share a canyon with you. {Since Ryan's technique is perfectly legal and imminently reasonable his response to you should have a background musical accompaniment. Glad I can oblige:
}
Running a generator all day is ignorance {ad hominen}, and an annoyance to anyone around you {assumption & opinion} With the right charger you can bring your batteries up to 90% in an hour or 2. The rest of the time is useless and not needed as you can cycle your batteries down to 50% between charges to 90%. {This is mostly opinion that appears to show an "ignorance" for maximizing a battery's lifetime as well as an "ignorance" of the particular systems under discussion. Extra credit if you can tell why my use of 'ignorance' was not ad hominen & Grant's is?} Peace and quiet doesn't mean you can hear the slight hum of a generator, it means you hear nothing except the wildlife {I won't tell the nude swingers story as I am still scarred from the sounds of that wildlife;)}, your quiet generators are likely annoying everyone in the same canyon and across the channel {This is again just personal opinion that should not be assigned to all visitors of the rec area}


Sorry to be a smart ***, but spent too many trips next to folks with likely 10 times the battery capacity I have who run their "quiet" generator seemingly just to charge their iphone... {Again this is mostly just assumptions about people you find annoying. Also PLEASE NOTE: Apologizing for being a "Smart ***" after being a "Smart ***" in a transparent attempt to normalize your being a "Smart ***" doesn't float (sts). If you want to be a Smart *** - Own It!}

I do sympathize with being annoyed at the lake for the annoyances are many and varied: Late parties, fireworks, screaming kids, noisy boats, noisy people, just people in general. Don't get me started about the guy frying bacon early one morning a few years ago....I practiced my Puss & Boots poor kitty eyes and started to head over, hat in hand, but saving me from embarrassment once again was my wife. And even that guy last year in Padre Canyon that beached right at my port anchor position in a small boat. No problem methinks....wrong again! He and his friend set up a 900 gazillion candlepower patio light not 50 feet off the port on the beach. By midnight I was a thinnin' about saying, "Hey buddy, how about turning off that unscheduled sunrise?" My wife even said she could see my skeleton through the wall when I was on the front deck. That may be an exaggeration but only by a smidge. I thought for awhile and decided against that approach because he seemed quite proud of being able to count the grains of sand at midnight on the beach. I am guessing that this was a gift from a family member or a deep discount at Costco. I did not want to burst his bubble, in my own subtle way, by asking if they themselves were migrating birds, the Raving Loons. Oh well, Can't live with 'em, Can't kill 'em.

OK , back to the usable point: Unless you rule the world, get over it.

As far as generators go at GCNRA:
  1. Quiet hours actually apply only in developed or established campgrounds. Ref: Superintendants Compendium 20170424
    Superintendant's Compendium said:
    [*]2.10(a) Camping: conditions and permits

    The following is prohibited:

    • Operation of generators and audio devices, such as radios, tape decks, compact disc players, etc. during the hours of 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. (Quiet Hours) in developed or established campgrounds. During hours of permitted operation, generators must be adequately muffled and not create excessive noise as defined in 36 CFR 2.12. The public is responsible to know what time zone they are in.
  2. Out on the lake this applies. Ref:36 CFR 2.12
    36 CFR 2.12}§ 2.12 [B said:
    Audio disturbances.[/B]
    (a) The following are prohibited:
    (1) Operating motorized equipment or machinery such as an electric generating plant, motor vehicle, motorized toy, or an audio device, such as a radio, television set, tape deck or musical instrument, in a manner:
    (i) That exceeds a noise level of 60 decibels measured on the A-weighted scale at 50 feet; or, if below that level, nevertheless;
    (ii) makes noise which is unreasonable, considering the nature and purpose of the actor's conduct, location, time of day or night, purpose for which the area was established, impact on park users, and other factors that would govern the conduct of a reasonably prudent person under the circumstances.

    (2) In developed areas, operating a power saw, except pursuant to the terms and conditions of a permit.

    (3) In nondeveloped areas, operating any type of portable motor or engine, or device powered by a portable motor or engine, except pursuant to the terms and conditions of a permit. This paragraph does not apply to vessels in areas where motor boating is allowed.

    (4) Operating a public address system, except in connection with a public gathering or special event for which a permit has been issued pursuant to § 2.50 or § 2.51.(b) Violation of the terms and conditions of a permit issued in accordance with section is prohibited and may result in the suspension or revocation of the permit.

  3. If you want to:
    • Operate portable generators in compliance with the above....have at it.
    • Operate a vessel mounted generator as in a houseboat 24/7 while out on the lake...have at it.
  4. Lastly, if there is anybody that chooses to run their generator just to charge their iPhone...have at it.
    Not my cup of tea but it's called 'private property rights' and it is at the very foundation of this country. This right cannot be taken away just because it annoys everyone someone at Lake Powell. If that's not acceptable to anyone they must use 'due process' to change it.
It is what it is,
Any corrections with references would be appreciated
Any criticisms, complaints see below:
take-a-number-hand-grenade.jpg

FWIW,
Goblin
 
Last edited:
Ha, yeah, maybe I owe Ryan an apology, I kind of knew my post would ruffle some feathers. I normally try post to educate not flame, however I've ran into multiple "Ryan's" in my camping trips this year and decided to just hit enter instead of soften the post up a bit.

Let me explain my "ignorance" comment. A smallish refir, with 6 12VDC batteries, started in the morning when everyone is up, and shutdown sometime before bedtime, letting them run all day "even though they don't spend much time on the houseboat during the day" is ignorance and rude to anyone nearby.

A smallish freezer is going to draw 75 amp hours max, with I assume 300 usable amp hours total with 6 12VDC batteries. The 14 or so hours per day you run your generator, they are doing nothing for 10 to 12 hours of that day as your batteries are fully charged. Also, a $500 investment in a couple 100 watt panels and charge controller would easily and silently keep up with this load.

So when your away from your houseboat that you "don't spend much time on", anyone within a half mile can hear your generators.

Now the North part of the Lake is less impacted by the South, so maybe Ryan annoyed no one. Just wait however, as the lake is getting more crowded. In the South 10 years ago it was rare to have more than a couple houseboats in a Canyon, the past couple years it's been difficult to even find a spot. It was not fun in Dungeon this year, when multiple rental houseboats pulled in within 150' of me.

And Goblin, thanks for the education in the law, but when did something being legal make it right? Every ambulance chasing lawyer really appreciates your support. Let me park my trailer mounted generator in the street in front of your house to charge my iPhone, it's legal, should I have at it. No, I don't think so.

So yeah, maybe I ruffled some feathers, but folks need to learn there is no need to run their quiet shiny new generators all day. They are an annoyance, so get a charger properly sized for your batteries to charge as quick as possible, then please shut them down...
 
And Goblin, thanks for the education in the law, but when did something being legal make it right? Every ambulance chasing lawyer really appreciates your support. Let me park my trailer mounted generator in the street in front of your house to charge my iPhone, it's legal, should I have at it. No, I don't think so.

So yeah, maybe I ruffled some feathers, but folks need to learn there is no need to run their quiet shiny new generators all day. They are an annoyance, so get a charger properly sized for your batteries to charge as quick as possible, then please shut them down... {"So it shall be written, so it shall be done!"}

As Jesse Stone would say, "I'm not in the right & wrong business, I'm in the legal & illegal business."

In my post I did not address people being polite, considerate of others or even smart. Remember you can't cure stupid and some relish in it. Their right I guess. There will always be some in the shallow end of the gene pool whose ancestors have, I suspect, only been walking on their hind legs a generation or two.. That is a totally different subject containing even more opinions than what is legal or illegal. For example:

You ask that others conform to the noisemaking level you have decided is appropriate and you think them doing otherwise is rude and inconsiderate.

-OR-

They could just as easily ask that you conform to the noisemaking level that they have decided is appropriate and they think you doing otherwise is rude and inconsiderate.


Now just what is right and who is being inconsiderate in my example above??o_O

I only addressed the rules but, if two parties just disagree about what is right or someone chooses to just be inconsiderate under the rules there is little you can do about it other than to enjoy some cheese with your whine.

As far as parking your trailer in front of my house and running your generator as you stated.......Have at it, as long as you:

  1. Follow local laws regarding the parking of RV/trailers in this residential area.
  2. Follow the laws regarding the time limit allowed in this residential area.
  3. Follow the "Quiet Hours" that are defined by code and do apply in this residential area.
  4. Follow the laws regarding noise levels in or out of "Quiet Hours" times.
  5. Do all that, have at it, and enjoy yourself! Don't and you may be ticketed.
Your thanks are appreciated, but not in any way necessary, for this continuing education of the law. Your new interest in parking RVs in my neighborhood in this case.

I know, Life sucks and then you die,
Goblin
 
Last edited:
And Goblin, thanks for the education in the law, but when did something being legal make it right? Every ambulance chasing lawyer really appreciates your support.
For those interested in logic, these two sentences seem to be the merging of "Dog Whistle" politics with a "Guilt By Association" argument.
"Dog Whistle" = "ambulance chasing lawyer" .... Everyone hates them!
"Guilt By Association" = "Every ambulance chasing lawyer really appreciates your support." You might as well have just said that the "Puppy Hater's Association" loves what Goblin just said! In either case there is no association between me, my statements, "Every ambulance chasing lawyer" or the "Puppy Hater's Association" for that matter. But an integral part of false logical arguments is the lack of any need for truth.

The "Dog Whistle" evokes negative emotions and the "Guilt By Association" argument applies those negative feelings to the other side of the argument. FWIW.

For those that have been patient I leave you with two lawyer jokes that have allowed me to become as endeared to "Every ambulance chasing lawyer" as I probably am to Grant Stevens - USBR.

  1. Question: Why do all lawyers own pool tables?

    Answer: Because it gives them 6 more pockets to go through.


  2. Question: What is the difference between a lawyer and a catfish?

    Answer: One is a bottom dwelling scum sucker and the other is a fish.
The last one might need to be moved to 'Lake Powell Fishing' so as not to be off-topic.;)

Goblin
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top