Phillbo
Escalante-Class Member
+1
Hull horsepower ratings
- Thread starter VikingRanch
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Ryan
Keeper of San Juan Secrets
Personally, I think you really need to define what you are looking for in improvement for the boat, and what your budget is to get there. I read the comment about struggling to get on plane with a load in the wind. Prop change would help that. So would moving weight forward.
It’s a given your boat is under powered. But if your goal is to make it “fast”, I think you also have the wrong hull. Sea Rays are known for a lot of things. Speed isn’t one of them.
Much goes into what your goals and budget are. You can throw a LOT of $$$$$ into the boat, and still not be happy. And whatever you spend, you are not likely to get a lot of that back when it comes time to sell. Sometimes that means a lot to people, sometimes it doesn’t.
If you are mechanically inclined, maybe some of the prior suggestions would make sense, but I personally would upgrade the entire boat long before throwing $$$$$ (because I think 5 figures is what it will take, conservatively, to get significantly better performance).
Bob Lloyd at Full Throttle Marine in Spicewood TX used to be the performance guy. I know that he did some major upgrades on Crownlines and Sea Rays back in the day to get the performance where people wanted. In a prior life on another forum I followed a build on the same model boat you have. If I remember correctly, they went big block power and got the boat reliably into the mid 60’s. If he is still around, that might be a good resource for you.
In regard to the insurance concerns, I’d suggest you do some research on your particular policy before taking what ANYONE on the internet says as gospel. My first career was non-standard (high risk) auto insurance. In those days, EVERYTHING that could be used to deny coverage on a claim had to be written in a policy exclusion. So if adding more HP than the plaque on your boat would deny a claim, it had to be written that way in your policy.
I know when I just changed my policy with Progressive for my new to me boat, they asked for the HP on the boat, not the rating. I’d call your agent and just ask something like “hey, I’m thinking of doing some work to my boat. If I went up to 425 HP, what would that do to my policy/rate”.
Good luck on your journey, and please take us along. I’m always up for a good “more power” discussion.
It’s a given your boat is under powered. But if your goal is to make it “fast”, I think you also have the wrong hull. Sea Rays are known for a lot of things. Speed isn’t one of them.
Much goes into what your goals and budget are. You can throw a LOT of $$$$$ into the boat, and still not be happy. And whatever you spend, you are not likely to get a lot of that back when it comes time to sell. Sometimes that means a lot to people, sometimes it doesn’t.
If you are mechanically inclined, maybe some of the prior suggestions would make sense, but I personally would upgrade the entire boat long before throwing $$$$$ (because I think 5 figures is what it will take, conservatively, to get significantly better performance).
Bob Lloyd at Full Throttle Marine in Spicewood TX used to be the performance guy. I know that he did some major upgrades on Crownlines and Sea Rays back in the day to get the performance where people wanted. In a prior life on another forum I followed a build on the same model boat you have. If I remember correctly, they went big block power and got the boat reliably into the mid 60’s. If he is still around, that might be a good resource for you.
In regard to the insurance concerns, I’d suggest you do some research on your particular policy before taking what ANYONE on the internet says as gospel. My first career was non-standard (high risk) auto insurance. In those days, EVERYTHING that could be used to deny coverage on a claim had to be written in a policy exclusion. So if adding more HP than the plaque on your boat would deny a claim, it had to be written that way in your policy.
I know when I just changed my policy with Progressive for my new to me boat, they asked for the HP on the boat, not the rating. I’d call your agent and just ask something like “hey, I’m thinking of doing some work to my boat. If I went up to 425 HP, what would that do to my policy/rate”.
Good luck on your journey, and please take us along. I’m always up for a good “more power” discussion.
Ryan
Keeper of San Juan Secrets
I mostly agree. But fuel mileage also equates to range. And if getting from your marina/camp to a certain point on the lake (and back) is important to you, so is mileage.
A lot of lakes have plenty marinas. If I only boated Lake of the Ozarks or Table Rock, range would be less important. What is it, 90ish miles from Antelope to Bullfrog? That’s a LONG run.
And when fuel is $6.59/gallon at the marina, and likely going up, budget is important to me. I wish I had unlimited funds, but I do not.
VikingRanch
Well-Known Member
I completely agree with this. I never think about mileage until I start planning trips at Powell. The difference of 3 mpg vs 4 mpg is the difference of getting where I want, ability to explore, and get back with reserves.
Ryan
Keeper of San Juan Secrets
I was partners on a houseboat powered by twin 5.0s. It had 4500 hours on them when the boat went down. Still compression checked fine.
Marine engines run a long time when properly maintained.
upthecreek
Well-Known Member
May apply some places. Not Powell
Just a little info. A couple of years ago 3 of us left Antelope Point for an all day fun trip up and back from Escalante. We all have the Sea Ray 240SD. One is an '04 with a 305, one '06 with a 350 Mag the '07 has the 6.2 We all fueled up when we got back and used within 2 gallons of each other. Mine took 46 gallons. Of course there are alot of factors to consider, but I was amazed.
VikingRanch
Well-Known Member
Before I bought this one I looked at a 2014 24’ with 7000 hours on it. I couldnt believe I was reading it right until he admitted it was a rental boat. I imagine with good care the engine was possibly still ok, but damn! Decided it wasn’t worth the drive to look at, no idea how chewed up the fiberglass was.
VikingRanch
Well-Known Member
Defining the goal is important. I am not trying to make a fast boat. Neither the hull or the outdrive are particularly suited to it, and it’s a family boat. Going fast is something I do on my own. We like to go to Oak Bay or the San Juan with a full load of people and camp gear, oh, and 105 gallons of fuel all up. We are within the coast guard plate for weight, but with an anemic motor down another 20% due to altitude, we are struggling to plane on day one. By the time we’re headed home having pissed two coolers into the lake and dumped the Porto potty at the usually functional Oak Bay bathroom, we’re doing much better. Empty the gear out onto the beach, it’s a fine tow boat. I’m 240lbs, and it pulls me out of the water on a wakeboard without issue. Single ski I’m trenching a little while, but better than the 19’ I learned behind.
So, the “safety” issue that I want to address is being able to plane again, or stay on plane, in the periodic special weather Powell is famous for. Wallowing into the waves with an engine that can’t climb past 2000 rpm is uncomfortable to say the least. I’ve also had circumstances where I was barely staying on plane, and the exigencies of lake traffic meant I either had to be rude and take the right of way, or drop off plane.
Cruise speed. Full up our optimal cruise is about 25mph. If I could make that 35mph I’d be happy. We almost always go a long way up lake, the speed would make a big difference.
Kinda sounds like I need to shop for a 6.2. And yes I would be doing the work. Only way I can afford to own a boat. Or any be of my other vehicles for that matter. I don’t begrudge mechanics their rate, I charge by the hour as well. I just can’t charge enough working on houses to pay someone to work on my boat.
KBJ
Active Member
My 79 SeaRay 260 Express with a 454 went 37 years before a rebuild, I asked my mechanic why it lost compression for no good reason
Offthepath
Active Member
It sounds like you are asking an awful lot of a very loaded down boat, regardless of the engine. My guess is that you will still be disappointed after a re-power with another SB chevy.
As a point of reference we have a 240 Crownline (heavy boat) that had a tired 350 with low compression. Probably not as bad as the 305, but it was pretty gutless.
We put a 383 in it. 383 are several more $$kk than a 350. Plus depending on the year, reflashing the ECU is another $600-800 as only one company can do it.
We had high expetations, but the performance was not mind blowing. It has more bottom end for sure, but top end is about the same and fully loaded we struggle to hit a good WOT rpm at powell with the 22p B3. Flaming gorge we have to drop to a 19p
For the money, we should have just dropped a reman 350 in. Or sold the boat......
VR, just curious where you found the max HP rating for the 240? I can't recall ever seeing that on a stern drive or inboard boat placard but outboard boat placards all have it. I checked out an '08 240 SD in the shop today with a 6.2 and no HP rating. I would think whatever the max power package offered for that model and year would be a safe bet and as far as I know 350 HP is more than the options offered.
A coworker said he has seen one 240 deck with a 7.4 and remembers it because he got stuck inverted in the battery compartment trying to get to the block drain! Another good reason to not stuff it with a BB.
I built a 383 MPI a few years ago that keeps moving to my next "keeper". My boating needs change but not my want for that particular power. It currently sits in a 1996 Sea Ray 240 Sundancer and I'm expecting it to work well over the 5.0 Alpha that came out.
Good luck with your decision!
A coworker said he has seen one 240 deck with a 7.4 and remembers it because he got stuck inverted in the battery compartment trying to get to the block drain! Another good reason to not stuff it with a BB.
I built a 383 MPI a few years ago that keeps moving to my next "keeper". My boating needs change but not my want for that particular power. It currently sits in a 1996 Sea Ray 240 Sundancer and I'm expecting it to work well over the 5.0 Alpha that came out.
Good luck with your decision!
Leardriver
Well-Known Member
I am not surprised. Fuel usage is corresponding to the amount of work done if the hull is the same. My 270 Sundeck with a 496 used about 5% more fuel than a 6.2 in a 240SD. Most of that was because of a heavier hull, but even for watersports, a burst of gas to get planed out, and then just loafing along at a low percentage of total power available.
lakepowellnut
Well-Known Member
I once had a customer make a claim I was to do the work on, but the insurance company denied the claim because the modifications to the engine exceeded their HP policy limitations. He never informed them of the HP change. You can get insurance, but in my experience, the insurance company needs to write the policy according to how the boat is powered or if any non-stock hull modifications had been made (we did this all the time). The short of it is you are correct, you need to inform the insurance company of your HP or any modifications that exceed the original specs.
KBJ
Active Member
Said I must’ve ran it too hard
Marina Bum
Escalante-Class Member
Props and whale tails and weight distribution are all good ideas. Another free and less obvious thing is to make sure that when your throttle is all the way down that your carb is actually wide open. (sometimes it's not)
To me another good affordable idea would be to install a new cam shaft. You may want to see if you can figure out what your stock profile is and go up from there. Most marine engines are already built for performance, higher compression and better heads than a stock automotive version. Plus they aren't smogged so you are already getting good performance from a marine motor.
A bigger cam profile will get more air and fuel into the motor and you can make more power from what you already have. I've had good luck with Summit Cams and Rhodes Lifters. Rhodes are poor man's variable valve timing, they are a hydraulic lifter that bleed at idle so it lessens your cam profile. You get better smoother idle from a loping cam and better vacuum (better hole shot) but off idle they pump up to give you your full cam profile.
It's really not a hard job to install a new cam in a boat if you've got some basic mechanical chops. (YouTube) You need to remove the water pump, the distributor, the intake manifold and the timing cover and there it is, your timing chain and gears. Put it up on number one first and mark your distributor before you begin and it's a pretty easy job. If you did it yourself it'll only cost you around $500. You could see a good gain in power but just as important you could get more torque at little higher RPM which will help your prop push more water.
I'm not a true expert like some guys on this site, I'm a hack and a tinkerer and a frugal boater.
To me another good affordable idea would be to install a new cam shaft. You may want to see if you can figure out what your stock profile is and go up from there. Most marine engines are already built for performance, higher compression and better heads than a stock automotive version. Plus they aren't smogged so you are already getting good performance from a marine motor.
A bigger cam profile will get more air and fuel into the motor and you can make more power from what you already have. I've had good luck with Summit Cams and Rhodes Lifters. Rhodes are poor man's variable valve timing, they are a hydraulic lifter that bleed at idle so it lessens your cam profile. You get better smoother idle from a loping cam and better vacuum (better hole shot) but off idle they pump up to give you your full cam profile.
It's really not a hard job to install a new cam in a boat if you've got some basic mechanical chops. (YouTube) You need to remove the water pump, the distributor, the intake manifold and the timing cover and there it is, your timing chain and gears. Put it up on number one first and mark your distributor before you begin and it's a pretty easy job. If you did it yourself it'll only cost you around $500. You could see a good gain in power but just as important you could get more torque at little higher RPM which will help your prop push more water.
I'm not a true expert like some guys on this site, I'm a hack and a tinkerer and a frugal boater.
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VikingRanch
Well-Known Member
Compared to pulling the outdrive and replacing the steering pin through a window cut in the mount, that doesn’t sound too bad at all.
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