Forced induction

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Ryan

Ryan

Keeper of San Juan Secrets
Hypothetically speaking, if someone was looking to upgrade their fishing boat, how much of an advantage would a forced induction (supercharged Verado) be?

What I’ve read shows that you lose about 3% HP for every 1000’ elevation. So by math, a 175 Verado should be pretty much equal in HP to a Brand X 200 at Powell elevations correct?
 
Ryan said:
Hypothetically speaking, if someone was looking to upgrade their fishing boat, how much of an advantage would a forced induction (supercharged Verado) be?

What I’ve read shows that you lose about 3% HP for every 1000’ elevation. So by math, a 175 Verado should be pretty much equal in HP to a Brand X 200 at Powell elevations correct?
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Umm I don’t know this answer but seems to be overthought imo. I’m at 8000’ in Colorado and see barely any difference at all on my 250 Pro XS. I know props can make the difference but I see barely any difference at all. My opinion
 
Not exactly, the rate of power loss due to the drop in ambient pressure is nearly the same for natural aspirated and supercharged engines - turbocharged engines have a slight advantage over the other two. However, SAE corrections (i.e. pulleys) can compensate for boost loss, but its not a 1:1.
 
Basically speaking, superchargers and or turbo's are added to smaller displacement engines in order to boost hp from those engines. It was primarily put into place to help meet gas mileage requirements. In the marine word of outboard engines, mileage is not generally a major factor in purchases, and there are no fuel use requirements--- because of this very few outboard engines have super chargers -- -- because they do not need to have them. -- they can still use displacement to generate power.
As for the verado, not all of them are supercharged -- if memory serves, just the 6 cylinder verado's have a supercharger -- the other models have v8's -- the new 600hp has a v12 and is also not supercharged.
 
I have a 200 hp Verado l4 on my thunder jet and I Could not tell you any difference between it and my 200 hp Yamaha's. Unless you are doing tournaments and strapping a 400 hp Verado on a Ranger. I am not really sure you could tell a difference. I would suggest you call Kellen at Great Lakes Marine in Littleton and ask him. He sells both Merc’s and Yamaha, and more importantly he will give you an accurate answer for your needs. He is a really good guy.
 
Ryan said:
Hypothetically speaking, if someone was looking to upgrade their fishing boat, how much of an advantage would a forced induction (supercharged Verado) be?

What I’ve read shows that you lose about 3% HP for every 1000’ elevation. So by math, a 175 Verado should be pretty much equal in HP to a Brand X 200 at Powell elevations correct?
Click to expand...
I was a Mercury dealer when the Verado was introduced to the market and I have to tell you, it’s been a beautiful motor, but everyone is correct that the superchargers can be a little more finicky and may require more maintenance than others, depending on how you maintain your outboard motor. Even though I had the choice of motor for my fishing boats, I chose the Optimax until recently. When I purchased my new bass boat, I chose to go with the 4 stroke ProXS 250 and the loss of power at higher elevations exists, but many factors play into the loss of power. I personally haven’t experienced a significant loss of power, even when go from 4,500’ to 9,000’ When I’m down at Powell, I don’t even have to change props because the power band and torque range is sufficient for most of the elevations I fish at.

If you’re going to explore other options, do your research and make a decision based on guys who spend a lot of time on the water down in the South. In the end, I haven’t regretted the ProXS for one second. It’s a fantastic motor. Good luck!
 
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I have the 23' Yamaha svho in a Yamaha Center Console 19' fish boat.
It is a supercharged 4cylinder 250hp inboard jet boat,
Supercharger requires no extra maintenance.
I can run in the valley, Roosevelt or Lake Powell without making any mechanical changes and have great performance.
Cruise, 32mph at 6000 rpm, 1300ft asl. Cruises, 28mph at 6000 rpm at Lake Powell.
yamaha-waverunners-2022-pdp_featuregallery-engine.jpg

I removed the tower and replaced it with an 8' bimini, I also added a pedestal fish seat to the bow.
file photo...
8465202_20220905193858048_1_XLARGE.jpg
 
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I currently own a 2018 Phoenix 21 PHX with a Mercury 250 Pro Verado, which I have owned since new. Prior to that, I owned a Skeeter 21i with a Yamaha 250 HPDI. I have had both boats all over AZ but mostly at Lake Powell. So I have run them both at low and high elevation including Navajo Lake in New Mexico. I will say this, the Verado doesn’t care, hot or cold, low elevation or high, it performs the same, low to mid 70’s mph. The Yamaha HPDI performed its’ best when it was cold and dry. Once it got hot and humid, decreased performance was very noticeable. Then throw in elevation and we are talking a 5 mph decrease in top speed. I only have 300 hours on my Verado and it has been nothing but perfect. I can perform all regular maintenance myself, which save a lot of money. If I were to buy a new boat tomorrow, it would have a supercharged Verado on it, but they went out of production the year I bought mine. When I bought mine, the dealer told me I got one of the last four in the US. Bill
 
I appreciate the feedback. I’ve owned many different boats, everything from a 12’ Jon boat with a 9.9 to my 23’ Malibu with an LS3.

My experience is that they all are affected by elevation. My 16’ Lund with a 60 HP Merc would struggle to get on plane with 2 people and a full livewell at 8500’, even with a high altitude prop. But I could change to a bigger prop and add people and still have better performance at Powell.

Anyway, I’ve taken a deposit on my Ranger, so I’m looking to see what the next fishing boat will be.

I’m looking at several multi species fiberglass boats. The two that I’m most interested in are both 18.5’, one with a 175 Verado (supercharged) and one with a 200 HP Yamaha.

There are tradeoffs between the two. I’m of the opinion that more HP is pretty much always better, but the boat with the Merc is priced better and I’m just wondering if there really would be any power advantage to the Yamaha when I believe it will lose HP at Powell and especially the higher mountain lakes.

I’m not buying anything until I have finalized the sale of my current boat, so all this could be a moot point as one or more of the boats I’m considering now may be sold by then.

But I do enjoy the search.
 
lakepowellnut said:
I was a Mercury dealer when the Verado was introduced to the market and I have to tell you, it’s been a beautiful motor, but everyone is correct that the superchargers can be a little more finicky and may require more maintenance than others, depending on how you maintain your outboard motor.
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Can you (or anyone) expand on specifics of what “more maintenance” means?
 
Ryan said:
Can you (or anyone) expand on specifics of what “more maintenance” means?
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There are lots of YouTube tutorials on Verado maintenance. It’s not a lot. Depending on the hours, the only additional service is replacing the supercharger belt, which you can do yourself. I just did a 100 hour service on mine: oil, filter, fuel filter and lower unit oil. I was skeptical of the additional complexity of the Verado, but my 150 has been flawless so far!
 
Unless you are fishing tournaments and racing competitors to the best spots and back to the way in.I would say that either motor would be more than effective for the casual angler on an 18ft boat. I would look at how the boats layout is and the reliability of the motor over which motor will squeeze out that extra hp to gain a couple mph at full throttle.
 
Ryan said:
Can you (or anyone) expand on specifics of what “more maintenance” means?
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I have a 2018 Verado 200 L4 with 500+ hrs and a pair of 2022 Yamaha 200’s with 200+ hrs. The maintenance is virtually the same for both. I am of the opinion that you would be hard pressed to tell the difference performance wise. Either way get one and go fishing, the fish will not care.
 
Forced induction rocks(!) but advances in other engine technologies have helped manufacturers make similar gains in power without the added weight, coast and maintenance. Technologies like higher displacement and compression slaved to newer ideas like computer controlled injection, direct injection and variable valve timing.

Using some or all of those approaches can produce similar or higher horsepower output without the added costs, complexity and maintainance of turbos or superchargers. Case in point the new mid engine corvette base motor makes something like 500hp and features over six liters and direct computer controlled injection.

Still I get very excited over smaller displacement high revving turbocharged and supercharged engines, they are just fun. If you take all the other new technology and throw a turbo charger on top of it power output just gets stupid. Corvette is said to have plans for putting optional twin turbos on top of direct injection for power output of near a thousand HP.

It's a great time to be a gear head!
 
Marina Bum said:
Forced induction rocks(!) but advances in other engine technologies have helped manufacturers make similar gains in power without the added weight, coast and maintenance. Technologies like higher displacement and compression slaved to newer ideas like computer controlled injection, direct injection and variable valve timing.

Using some or all of those approaches can produce similar or higher horsepower output without the added costs, complexity and maintainance of turbos or superchargers. Case in point the new mid engine corvette base motor makes something like 500hp and features over six liters and direct computer controlled injection.

Still I get very excited over smaller displacement high revving turbocharged and supercharged engines, they are just fun. If you take all the other new technology and throw a turbo charger on top of it power output just gets stupid. Corvette is said to have plans for putting optional twin turbos on top of direct injection for power output of near a thousand HP.

It's a great time to be a gear head!
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Not long ago I bought a 2018 F-150 with a little 2.7 liter Ecoboost twin turbo that puts out 325 HP and 400 ft\lbs of torque. What I find fascinating about this tiny gas engine is that it creates something like 90% of it's torque at around 1750 rpm. Torque peaks at 2750 rpm. It pulls like a freight train at low rpms. No high revs required. Tows my boat effortlessly, dependably and gets incredibly good mileage.
Why couldn't something like this engine be adapted to a marine application?
 
Maverick5207 said:
Not long ago I bought a 2018 F-150 with a little 2.7 liter Ecoboost twin turbo that puts out 325 HP and 400 ft\lbs of torque. What I find fascinating about this tiny gas engine is that it creates something like 90% of it's torque at around 1750 rpm. Torque peaks at 2750 rpm. It pulls like a freight train at low rpms. No high revs required. Tows my boat effortlessly, dependably and gets incredibly good mileage.
Why couldn't something like this engine be adapted to a marine application?
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You are right, Ford killed it with that V6 combining new engine technologies and turbo charging. A variant of that motor powered their car that beat Ferrari again at Lemans a few years back. I'm not a real expert but marine power-band requirements don't mirror those of cars and truck. Props slip, hull design comes into play as well as purpose of the boat.

Mercury has a new all mercury designed V6 dedicated marine engine, their first inboard motor not just an adapterd truck or car engine. The numbers on it are amazing especially its fuel consumption for its power output.

But I think outboards are the future for boats, everyone is going that way. I think we may see a day soon when almost only Surf Boats remain as inboards so their prop can be buried underneath. Even many new yachts are getting onboard, it's the future for boats
 
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