Cell service between Bullfrog and the San Juan
- Thread starter boatdaddy
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My experience is that coverage has remained largely the same. However, the quality within that coverage seems to be much better. I get the sense that the equipment has been updated, but is still broadcasting from the same locations. Again, just my perception.
Ditto Ryan. I find that in the middle of the night or very early morning I can get data service on the fringes of being able to see Navajo. During daylight hours texts and calls are ok if you can see Navajo, but data slows WAY down
nzaugg
Escalante-Class Member
I agree with this as well. You can make a phone call if you get service. The towers are perpetually overloaded when it comes to data during daylight hours, so you are really out of luck there. You will get spurts of data/emails but will not likely be able to do anything with it.
dallas massie
Escalante-Class Member
The new towers are going to be powered up by the new power plant by the Bullfrog dry dock , that is what Captain Titis told me this spring. So far the new power plant is not up and running and he told me that it was it was messed up when they built the building .They poured the pad wrong. You can still here the old power plant still running from all over Bullfrog Bay at night.
Dworwood
Keeper of San Juan Secrets
I agree, last trip down was the worst I have seen for a while, not better.
Range to tower within line of sight is mostly determined by the tower capacity and local demand measured by closest proximity, and frequency.
The old 800Mhz analog towers ran at 100% power 24/7 like a TV transmitting station or a lighthouse beacon, and this is why you could get connection to farnsworth tower located near Tooele / SLC clear up in idaho or clear down by Nephi back in the day.
The new digital towers throttle wattage power determined on tower capacity (design plate for max number of connections/subscribers at one time). As new subscribers add load to the tower, the tower automatically reduces output power to reduce range to service ONLY the number of subscribers the tower is designed to support. This is why at 2 AM you have great connection all over the lake, but as people wake up and start using their phones the outer range ring begins to shrink adjusting to manage the number of connections. This is why you go from 3 bars to 1 without moving your phone. This is also why you have amazing service in the off season and no so much during the peak.
Even if you have a view of Navajo, you may not have a signal at 9AM or noon or 7 PM. The older style 3G system had much better range than current 5G, but the quality of experience on 3G was poor and on a 5G link is amazingly high.
5G can be very confusing because everyone wants to be part of it even if they are not on the high bandwidth short range MM frequencies. True 5G will have crazy high speeds but crazy short ranges. Many providers have decided to stack bandwidth across longer range channels, you see higher speeds and you see 5G on the display but there is NO WAY you are actually meeting the 6 requirements of 5G as distance to tower is problematic as the true higher 5G channels fade out when exposed to oxygen and rain. 5G is like golfing with ping pong balls, hit out as hard as you want the distance is always short.
Another trick the service providers have in play is not connecting to stronger signals with high ping rates (greater distance from tower - indicates a boosted signal) the tower knows if you are outside the preferred service ring and can actually shut off or reduce power output of your signal boosting equipment. The older gear does not have this provider controlled throttle but the older gear is no longer able to connect on the old EOL channels.
I have a stacked cellular system that actually combines ATT, Verizon and T-mobile and I often see speeds over 100 and sometimes over 300Mbps up and down. I use the three different carriers to increase probability of a single connection, but you can also stack same carrier cards. look at cradle point branded products With a high db external antenna.
Starlink is amazing as it works virtually everywhere but the speeds are all over the place especially with slower uploads in areas of few ground stations. There is a massive scaling issues with starlink, and it has significant issues currently with its internal LEO laser tracking system. The entire concept and design and deployment is 100% fascinating and is the result of thinking way outside the box With lots of funding to cover first round failures. It will only get better, but they need to improve known tracking issues and increase the number of earth connected mother ships.
Iridium is the gold standard but super expensive and global star is the laughing joke of the industry. For fast internet stick with LEO and not GS orbits.
If your phone is slow or not connecting, just turn out off and then back on for it to perform a new channel scan.
The new iPhone 14 enjoys satellite connection during emergencies much like spot or in reach. This is handy in an emergency but not designed to engage tik tok or YouTube.
The old 800Mhz analog towers ran at 100% power 24/7 like a TV transmitting station or a lighthouse beacon, and this is why you could get connection to farnsworth tower located near Tooele / SLC clear up in idaho or clear down by Nephi back in the day.
The new digital towers throttle wattage power determined on tower capacity (design plate for max number of connections/subscribers at one time). As new subscribers add load to the tower, the tower automatically reduces output power to reduce range to service ONLY the number of subscribers the tower is designed to support. This is why at 2 AM you have great connection all over the lake, but as people wake up and start using their phones the outer range ring begins to shrink adjusting to manage the number of connections. This is why you go from 3 bars to 1 without moving your phone. This is also why you have amazing service in the off season and no so much during the peak.
Even if you have a view of Navajo, you may not have a signal at 9AM or noon or 7 PM. The older style 3G system had much better range than current 5G, but the quality of experience on 3G was poor and on a 5G link is amazingly high.
5G can be very confusing because everyone wants to be part of it even if they are not on the high bandwidth short range MM frequencies. True 5G will have crazy high speeds but crazy short ranges. Many providers have decided to stack bandwidth across longer range channels, you see higher speeds and you see 5G on the display but there is NO WAY you are actually meeting the 6 requirements of 5G as distance to tower is problematic as the true higher 5G channels fade out when exposed to oxygen and rain. 5G is like golfing with ping pong balls, hit out as hard as you want the distance is always short.
Another trick the service providers have in play is not connecting to stronger signals with high ping rates (greater distance from tower - indicates a boosted signal) the tower knows if you are outside the preferred service ring and can actually shut off or reduce power output of your signal boosting equipment. The older gear does not have this provider controlled throttle but the older gear is no longer able to connect on the old EOL channels.
I have a stacked cellular system that actually combines ATT, Verizon and T-mobile and I often see speeds over 100 and sometimes over 300Mbps up and down. I use the three different carriers to increase probability of a single connection, but you can also stack same carrier cards. look at cradle point branded products With a high db external antenna.
Starlink is amazing as it works virtually everywhere but the speeds are all over the place especially with slower uploads in areas of few ground stations. There is a massive scaling issues with starlink, and it has significant issues currently with its internal LEO laser tracking system. The entire concept and design and deployment is 100% fascinating and is the result of thinking way outside the box With lots of funding to cover first round failures. It will only get better, but they need to improve known tracking issues and increase the number of earth connected mother ships.
Iridium is the gold standard but super expensive and global star is the laughing joke of the industry. For fast internet stick with LEO and not GS orbits.
If your phone is slow or not connecting, just turn out off and then back on for it to perform a new channel scan.
The new iPhone 14 enjoys satellite connection during emergencies much like spot or in reach. This is handy in an emergency but not designed to engage tik tok or YouTube.
smoke
Well-Known Member
good explanation bubba. we were on the lake the week before labor day and the service has been the worst we ever seen while the lake was nearly empty. one day we went to Antelope Marina for gas and we had no problem to get a dock spot in front of the marina store. We only cross 14 boat on our return to BF from MM43 to BF 5. and while they were very people on the lake the service was really bad. I can't only imagine how it was on labor day weekend with all the crowd
We recently spent a week at Bullfrog and parked our boat against the large rock wall towards Halls. ATT service was flawless the entire trip…so much so that friends logged into our hotspot and everyone could connect as needed. Verizon was pretty worthless unless Navajo was in sight…
I read it all and the greatest part was the last sentence... you must have kids.
Super strange the issues people have been having this year. I have a relative who works for First Net (The First Responder Network for AT&T). Earlier this year he informed me that AT&T had installed 2 new cell towers at Bullfrog. They are ran off generators, so as long as the generator is working, the cell towers should be live.
I have AT&T I was down there in both May and June so got to try it out both weeks and had the best service I have ever had in the Bullfrog Area. We went down South both trips so didn't spend a lot of time in the area, but I had service about 5 or 7 miles down the channel before I lost it. In June on the last night, we took a boat ride up to Moqui canyon and I was receiving texts as we were driving through the canyon. This was something I have never experienced on the lake.
I have AT&T I was down there in both May and June so got to try it out both weeks and had the best service I have ever had in the Bullfrog Area. We went down South both trips so didn't spend a lot of time in the area, but I had service about 5 or 7 miles down the channel before I lost it. In June on the last night, we took a boat ride up to Moqui canyon and I was receiving texts as we were driving through the canyon. This was something I have never experienced on the lake.
Totally agree, I have Verizon phone and AT&T IPad. Verizon had absolutely no service in and around Bullfrog. Used my AT&T hotspot on iPad and linked my Verizon phone via WiF, worked perfectly, emails, internet, phone. It used to be the other way around, few years back Verizon had decent service if you could see Navajo Mountain and would work pretty well over in to Halls. Verizon phone had sos on top corner entire time until we were in sight of Hanksville heading home.
nzaugg
Escalante-Class Member
Verizon used to be the only way to get service down in the BF/Halls area. It has really tanked lately. Even in the shoulder seasons, we have had trouble getting signal in the marinas.
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