Boat insurance

[Wet1]

Root cause of my issue was a manufacturing defect. The splash plate that is the concave piece in the bottom of the motor well was not installed correctly. There are 2 drain holes in the transom and on one side the plate was not positioned under the hole but was half way up it. When I beached my boat on the steep bank it caused the drain holes in the transom to be below water line so water began running into the bilge because of the plate not being welded in below the drain hole.

I returned to the boat after a couple hours of setting up camp to find water in the floor and immediately thought I must have bumped the the livewell fill switch when unloading the boat as this was poorly designed and would overflow into the floor. I jumped in and checked it and it was off. I immediately threw on the bilge pump but by this time the weight of the water in the boat had the transom low enough for water to be pouring into the bilge through the motor cabling boot. Within a couple more minutes the transom dropped low enough for water to start coming over the top of it. Once that happened it was all over in a matter of a couple more minutes with the rear of the boat sinking until the motor skeg hit bottom.

Would have never happened if I hadn't been on a steep bank with 8 feet of water under the transom instead of a shallower bank. Also the boat did come with a bilge pump but it did not have a float switch to turn on automatically. (weird)

My Lund now has 2 bilge pumps, one with a float switch and a properly designed livewell as well as many other better quality features.

Sorry for the long story, but you did ask!

 

[Ryan]

@Wet1 , I can't imagine walking out to see my boat like that. Sounds like a terrible design.

That new Lund looks very nice though. Quite the upgrade.

 

[Dorado]

Many (or most) smaller boats do not come with an automatic bilge float switch (I have a 2001 Crestliner, the bilge is manual). I have had many nights camping where the paranoia overcomes me at night, and I have to go down and check the boat....repeatedly. Especially when it is windy and you can hear the waves coming onto the beach. I have never had any issues however.

I looked into and still plan on changing the bilge from manual to auto. The thing that makes it a bit harder is that you need to change the wiring and the switch to allow for auto and manual operation....

Sorry, getting off topic

 

[Dan Spitzer]

Many (or most) smaller boats do not come with an automatic bilge float switch (I have a 2001 Crestliner, the bilge is manual). I have had many nights camping where the paranoia overcomes me at night, and I have to go down and check the boat....repeatedly. Especially when it is windy and you can hear the waves coming onto the beach. I have never had any issues however.

I looked into and still plan on changing the bilge from manual to auto. The thing that makes it a bit harder is that you need to change the wiring and the switch to allow for auto and manual operation....

Sorry, getting off topic

I have a 2005 Crestliner with a manual only bilge pump, and yeah, been up some nights several times checking on things.

 

[Wet1]

@Wet1 , I can't imagine walking out to see my boat like that. Sounds like a terrible design.

That new Lund looks very nice though. Quite the upgrade.

Thanks, crazy thing is that it's the same year (2005) and I was able to upgrade for $2k after selling the Tracker to someone in Canada. The Lund is alot more boat than the Tracker Tundra was. I've been very happy with it the last 5 years.

 

[Wet1]

I have a 2005 Crestliner with a manual only bilge pump, and yeah, been up some nights several times checking on things.

I was able to add a pump with a float switch on the Tracker after the event as the pump needed replaced as part of the reclamation.

 

[Waterbaby]

I've had Progressive for years. No problems with them, knock on wood. When the brakes on our boat locked up on the way to Lake Powell they sent a tow truck, put it on a flatbed and took back into town to our front door... I never received a bill from them. When our boat had a low speed sensor go out at Lake Powell and it cost us $1600 for the tow back to Wahweap, we paid upfront and were reimbursed within a week of returning home from our vacation by Progressive.. not a peep from them, we sent the invoice and the check was in the mail back to us right away. Like Bart the owner Peter Lewis does not give me a warm and fuzzy, but they were the only one who covered towing the boat as well as our car if the car broke down for some reason when towing the boat to Lake Powell. Not wanting to leave our boat unhitched alongside the highway to be stripped and destroyed simply was not an option so we went with them and have never had a complaint on our part.

 

[Edward Gerdemann]

Being in the industry, and representing Progressive as well as many others, I have seen my fair share of claims.
Bottom line is that all companies have some bad apples in the claims department--- I get more " push back" on average from claims with Progressive, but overall negative claims experiences are rare. Most companies including progressive do a great job handling claims. --- Lake Bum --- I have zero question on the validity of your claim--- what I would like to know is what your agent did for you in helping you get your claim settled? In my eyes, that is one of the most important jobs agents have --- walking you through the claim process, and championing your cause.

I worked in auto insurance claims for 34 years, and I echo Dave's sentiments. In most companies the front line manager sets the tone for how his/her claim representatives do their job. If the manager is good, claim handling generally is good. If the manager is bad, claim handling will reflect that also. It amazes me that there can be such a radical difference in claim handling quality not just within the same company but within the same office. What I found puzzling was how the second line management often did little to control the front line managers, especially if they were bad. Bad managers' claims units will have a high number of open/pending claims, high litigation counts, high expense ratios and high average paid cost (the longer a claim stays open the more expensive it gets). Bad managers will also use smoke and mirror tactics (premature closing of claims, withholding payments until the next month/quarter/year) to make their numbers look better than they are. I saw very few managers ever held accountable for their units' bad numbers, and when some individual claims got out of control they were often transferred to units with good managers to clean them up. I did a lot of cleaning up other people's messes in my career, and I never got paid an extra dime for it.

For several years I served as an arbitrator for Intercompany Arbitration. Many insurance companies entered into agreements not to sue each other over claim disputes but to instead take them to an arbitration forum of insurance industry peers for resolution. Over the years I saw claim and claim from the same claim representatives making the same invalid arguments over and over again. I would enter comments as to why their contentions were not valid but it seemed to no avail as the next session I saw the same claim representatives doing the same old things. I suspect they were merely reflecting the philosophy of their front line managers.

Another problem that affects claim handling is claim staff turnover. Very few claims people stay with one company for 30 plus years anymore like I did. I was one of the last of that breed with my company. To begin with claims work is stressful, and it's more stressful today than it was 20-30 years ago. Second, companies today don't value experience like they used to. Compensation rates for experienced claims people are lower today (adjusted for inflation, of course) than they were when I came up. Retirement/benefit packages aren't what they used to be, either, which means employees have less of a reason to be loyal to their employers than before. Finally, the skill level of new employees isn't what it was in the past, either. In my last few working years I saw my company hiring people to do my job who could not construct a proper English sentence. Those people would not have gotten past human resources 30 years ago, but now they're front line claim representatives.

The bottom line is you can have a bad claims experience even with the best of companies, however some carriers tend to have better records than others. I strongly suggest before you decide to insure with a certain carrier that you check your state's department of insurance concerning the number of complaints that carrier has compared with other carriers. That will give you a good idea as to the claims management in your area of a particular company.

Ed Gerdemann

 

[Ryan]

I'll respond to your original, unedited response to me. Yes......there was more to the story.
My rock strike happened at 3.2 mph, while trolling I hit a whale that was submerged. There was zero prop damage, but with a big heavy cruiser that was one heck of a jolt to the outdrive. It caused the transom to leak on the seal. That repair required the motor, and outdrive to be removed. Progressive's in house "expert" called the damage "wear and tear" and of course it wasn't. I had a professional marine survey done, by someone who was supposed to be an independant contractor. Well.....his decline was almost word for word of Progressive, so I know that was a total setup as well. I had NEVER had a claim in my life for boat insurance, and I was treated like a criminal.

Everyone who likes Progressive, has never had a claim......what they like is the cheap premiums!

Thanks for expanding. Sounds like a very unfortunate situation. And if I were in your shoes, I would do what you did/are doing.

That said, may I ask a follow up question in regard to the "professional marine survey"? Did Progressive give you his information, or did you find it on your own? Was there some way to appeal his findings?

The reason I ask is, trying to look at this from an impartial position, if I were the insurance company, I likely would have denied the claim based on that as well.

Seeing that we are already off topic, and we have some insurance professionals on the board, I would be interested in their take. Perhaps it could help one of us should we be in a similar situation.

 

[Waterbaby]

Lake Bum's situation reminds me of when we struck a object coming into the channel here on Havasu and it caused a major issue with the low end of the outdrive [the oil was white due to the water].. it costs thousands. Several years later someone told me we should have filed an insurance claim for the damage, honestly never even thought of it at the time, wished we had.

 

[Pegasus]

Steve, to your original question - I do have BoatUS insurance on three boats. I have had very good experience with them including making one claim (for lightning strike damage). They sent a very experienced loss surveyor out who did a thorough job, and they paid the claim without a problem. They did refer me several times when I had questions to "read my policy" as the coverage was all written very clearly (as clearly as an insurance policy can be) in the policy.

That is the only claim I've had in my life and I was happy with how they handled it. As others have stated, any insurance company will take your check, it's when you have a claim and how they handle it that matters.

p.s. - I did have Progressive prior to BoatUS. I switched as Progressive's rates were increased substantially (back around 2005) for me and I've never looked back.

 

[TR.]

Lake Bum's situation reminds me of when we struck a object coming into the channel here on Havasu and it caused a major issue with the low end of the outdrive [the oil was white due to the water].. it costs thousands. Several years later someone told me we should have filed an insurance claim for the damage, honestly never even thought of it at the time, wished we had.

I chose progressive for boat and motorcycle years ago when I had a friend doing working for them. They were the cheapest except for towing, and I still worry about that after previous threads here. I had a friend that had his ski boat sunk a few feet off shore by the exec services ramp about five years ago. It was the start of a week long trip and I barely got my boat to a dock when the freak storm came in. He had progressive for 8 days as he had just bought the boat. Progressive paid for the recovery/crane and the price of the boat. That made me a little more comfortable with them. Water baby I quoted you because a few years ago I added the lower drive coverage when they added it that covers a prop strike, including engine repair. A few years ago, i inadvertently left the lower drive nut a little loose when I changed the oil. Water got into the outdrive and I called them. They did a full investigation and in the end did not pay because it was operator error. After I had made the initial claim (not knowing how bad the damage was) the claims woman went over my story and asked me several times if I was really sure I hadn't hit anything that might have jarred the nut.... it was my bad so I told her so and in the end they denied the claim. I am quite confident that had I said that I had hit something they would have paid up, and they made a fair decision based on the policy. In the end there was no damage and a $250 dollar bill. Karma I guess. I hope I never have to find out if Travis' experience is typical or not.

TR

 

[Waterbaby]

I chose progressive for boat and motorcycle years ago when I had a friend doing working for them. They were the cheapest except for towing, and I still worry about that after previous threads here. I had a friend that had his ski boat sunk a few feet off shore by the exec services ramp about five years ago. It was the start of a week long trip and I barely got my boat to a dock when the freak storm came in. He had progressive for 8 days as he had just bought the boat. Progressive paid for the recovery/crane and the price of the boat. That made me a little more comfortable with them. Water baby I quoted you because a few years ago I added the lower drive coverage when they added it that covers a prop strike, including engine repair. A few years ago, i inadvertently left the lower drive nut a little loose when I changed the oil. Water got into the outdrive and I called them. They did a full investigation and in the end did not pay because it was operator error. After I had made the initial claim (not knowing how bad the damage was) the claims woman went over my story and asked me several times if I was really sure I hadn't hit anything that might have jarred the nut.... it was my bad so I told her so and in the end they denied the claim. I am quite confident that had I said that I had hit something they would have paid up, and they made a fair decision based on the policy. In the end there was no damage and a $250 dollar bill. Karma I guess. I hope I never have to find out if Travis' experience is typical or not.

TR

Oh we definitely hit something - I was driving [oops]..... coming into the channel here on Havasu out of Thompson bay sand build up due to water from the washes in town converging and flowing into the lake in heavy rainstorms. They dredge it from time-to-time and usually you just turn wide to the left coming into the channel - there was a lot of boat traffic and I didn't do that - should have put the out-drive up and didn't. I noticed a vibration after and mentioned it to George..... since it was near the end of the season the boat was pretty much parked for the winter and then in the Spring George went to change the oil in the outdrive and it was white - which is never a good thing. Took it to the local repair place and it had screwed up the lower end of the outdrive - repair costs over $3000. A friend told us to take it over to Cambell's to their mechanic - we did and he concurred with the damage and made the repair for $2500. An expensive lesson in having a deep out-drive [which the Tritune we purchased later didn't have thank goodness]. The only other time we had a problem with that boat was backing off a muddy beach, had to give it more power to back off and when we stopped on another beach for a while the bilge pump started spewing out water, George looked under the engine cover and found water pouring in the back of the boat. We headed for the ramp in a hurry and took it over to Campbell's ... that time it had broken the seal between the outdrive and the engine.. the seal was a $5 part, pulling the engine to replace it $500 - needless to say we looked at potential beaches differently after that expensive lesson... we did get on a mucky beach at Powell afterwards and were very careful in getting the boat out of the muck.. Love boats... but they are not inexpensive toys. Anyway, in retrospect, since our incident was a definitely strike I should have filed a claim, but I didn't. The seal was strictly on us though.