Wake surfing after dark!

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Sounds like you slalom too? My PB was probably like a couple of balls at 34 at maybe 28 off, I was comfortable at 32 and 28 off. It's a meat grinder of a sport, a tug of war with a 3,000 lb 300 HP boat that you loose ever time. I was injured a lot but I had lots of fun. It's one of those things that if you don't start very early in life you will probably not ever be great at it.

Wade Cox used to ski at out little lake, he lived out there in a mobile home for a time. He was the world record holder for a while, he beat out Andy Maple in a tournament at I believe it was 36 mph, 42.5 off and got all six balls, I'd have to look it up, that was a long time ago, I haven't ran a course in 20 years. When he would practice he'd open up at 36 and 32 off, his ski would make a screaming sound up on edge cutting through the wake. Good times!
 
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This weekend I'm returning to Powell and hosting a friend of over thirty years on my houseboat. We met through a private water ski lake just outside Phoenix back in 1994. He seemed old at the time, my oldest friend, he was 36 and I was 26. 😂 He always thought like a much younger person and still does. We were both very passionate about slalom skiing and used to get into small time tournaments in the local slalom ski scene. We both had weekend trailers out there on the lake and we used to laugh at ourselves around our winter fires at night (yes we'd ski in the winter there) over our obsession to just go around those little balls over and over again trying to better and improve our times but it was almost the only thing both of us wanted to do. It drove our wives a bit crazy.

He was telling me that he ran into one of the folks from back in the day who was involved in organizing tournaments at a national level and still is and that she was saying that soon the sport of slalom skiing will be dead; That water skis aren't selling anymore. She went onto say not enough (almost zero) young people are
interested in Slalom Sliing. She said that in her opinion within two years the Pro Tour events will be over, that almost no one is coming to watch the events. The pipeline of people coming up through the sport is almost empty and that water ski manufacturers are going out of business.
Slalom and water-skiing in general I think is still very much alive today. Across the country there are college waterski teams competing and many pro events worldwide, with competitors in the 3 event sports of slalom, jump, and tricks. So exciting to watch! John Horton has an instagram account called Ball of Spray that is very active with posting many waterski tournaments. Marcus Brown of Flow Point Method on Instagram is another. He is a sponsor of HO skis. There is nothing more addicting than waterskiing on a glassy lake in pure serenity! Boating and the camaraderie with friends whether it's waterskiing, wakeboarding, or wake surfing, is such a great pastime. It's just frustrating when groups disturb or disrespect others around or cause damage through not having a considerate mindset.
 
To OP’s original point…surfing at night = dumb. I saw it for the first time in Last Chance in July. It looked cool and all but really risky...I’d never advocate for that. Surfing is indeed highly social. We bought our first boat just last year (Yamaha 252XE surf boat). I’m in my 50s and love it…and I don’t surf! However, our four twenty-something year olds do…and they love it…and it’s something we all can experience together (including their four significant others) at the same time. It’s only going to become more and more popular and present. Regarding the wake we produce…pretty much only I drive the boat which allows me to control where we go…and, I am very conscious of the wake it produces and where I take the boat. As far as the noise surf boats boat produce, in my estimation it’s no more or less than any other pleasure craft. Increasing or changing rules on lakes to limit wake boats? Perhaps. Although my typical suspicion of government gives me pause.

Nine most terrifying words…”I’m from the government and I’m here to help.” -Ronald Reagan Aug 12, 1986
I went to see Regan speak Live in April of 1989 at ASU. I asked my wife, whom I'd just met to skip class to go with me to see someone who many considered to be The Great Communicator weather they agreed with his ideas or not. She's a rule keeper and went to class and once in a while when he is flashed up on TV she expresses regret at not going with me that day. I'm really glad I went.

That line about distrust of big government over reach was delivered so well but it was not something he coined, it was lifted from other sources and had been around awhile. Regan wasn't an anarchist and he was very much a rule of law guy which put him at odds with many citizens of California in the 70's when, for example, as Governor he was against softening marijuana penalties. So he was very much a law and order guy.

A Big Federal Government built Glen Canyon dam, Is strong enough to regulate capitalism and provides guard rails in all kinds of ways. I think Regan realized that

I'd like some rules from Park Service, an extension of that Federal Government that say something like: Because of the extraordinary size and power of the Wakes Surf generating boats create they must stay 1000 feet from shore when surfing or face up to a $1,500 fine. Something like that could keep them out of the small coves, give the anglers and kayakers a chance in there and give me something to point to when I buzz out to talk to them 15 people to 1 to ask them not to pound my houseboat and campsite into oblivion. I don't think a rule like that will lead to communism on Lake Powell
 
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I went to see Regan speak Live in April of 1989. I asked my wife, whom I'd just met to skip class to go with me to see someone who many considered to be The Great Communicator weather they agreed with his ideas or not. She's a rule keeper and went to class and once in a while when he is flashed up on TV she expresses regret at not going with me that day. I'm really glad I went.

That line about distrust of big government over reach was delivered so well but it was not something he coined, it was lifted from other sources and had been around awhile. Regan wasn't an anarchist and he was very much a rule of law guy which put him at odds with many citizens of California in the 70's when, for example, as Governor he was against softening marijuana penalties. So he was very much a law and order guy.

A Big Federal Government built Glen Canyon dam, Is strong enough to regulate capitalism and provides guard rails in all kinds of ways. I think Regan realized that

I'd like some rules from Park Service, an extension of that Federal Government that say something like: Because of the extraordinary size and power of the Wakes Surf generating boats create they must stay 1000 feet from shore when surfing or face up to a $1,500 fine. Something like that could keep them out of the small coves, give the anglers and kayakers a chance in there and give me something to point to when I buzz out to talk to them 15 people to 1 to ask them not to pound my houseboat and campsite into oblivion. I don't think a rule like that will lead to communism on Lake Powell
A group requested the park service consider restrictions based on canyon width, keeping surf boats confined largely to the channel, though some of the larger canyons and bays (Last Chance, Navajo, etc.) could still be allowed. This would allow a good shelter from the waves for those who don't anchor in the big bays and hopefully keep those stupid videos of people wakeboarding and surfing up against the canyon walls from posting and propagating that nonsense.

All this still requires some kind of enforcement, which it seems the rangers are loath to do. I can't imagine it is really comfortable going up to a group of 15 people that already show disdain for the rules when there are only two of you.
 
A group requested the park service consider restrictions based on canyon width, keeping surf boats confined largely to the channel, though some of the larger canyons and bays (Last Chance, Navajo, etc.) could still be allowed. This would allow a good shelter from the waves for those who don't anchor in the big bays and hopefully keep those stupid videos of people wakeboarding and surfing up against the canyon walls from posting and propagating that nonsense.

All this still requires some kind of enforcement, which it seems the rangers are loath to do. I can't imagine it is really comfortable going up to a group of 15 people that already show disdain for the rules when there are only two of you.
This works to perfection at both Saguaro Lake and Canyon Lake.
Canyon Lake in particular limits wake boats in a way that I find that takes everyone's concerns IMHO.
Front half of the lake is completely open with no restrictions with a large no wake zone in front of the old restaurant and rv park. The back 40% of the lake has a "no tow" restriction. In other words, no ski\surf but no restrictions on speed.
The last mile is no wake.
This seems works for everyone. No complaints from the wakeboard folks, fishermen seem happy and the people that like to park on the shore and hang out have their areas in calm waters.
I think the powers that be could implement something similar to this rather easily and be fair to all concerned. Enforcement could be an issue but most people would voluntarily comply.
Just my thoughts.....
 
A group requested the park service consider restrictions based on canyon width, keeping surf boats confined largely to the channel, though some of the larger canyons and bays (Last Chance, Navajo, etc.) could still be allowed. This would allow a good shelter from the waves for those who don't anchor in the big bays and hopefully keep those stupid videos of people wakeboarding and surfing up against the canyon walls from posting and propagating that nonsense.

All this still requires some kind of enforcement, which it seems the rangers are loath to do. I can't imagine it is really comfortable going up to a group of 15 people that already show disdain for the rules when there are only two of you.
They come fully armed I’ve been ordered to the beach with a long gun wasn’t pleasant!
 
Sounds like you slalom too? My PB was probably like a couple of balls at 34 at maybe 28 off, I was comfortable at 32 and 28 off. It's a meat grinder of a sport, a tug of war with a 3,000 lb 300 HP boat that you loose ever time. I was injured a lot but I had lots of fun. It's one of those things that if you don't start very early in life you will probably not ever be great at it.

Wade Cox used to ski at out little lake, he lived out there in a mobile home for a time. He was the world record holder for a while, he beat out Andy Maple in a tournament at I believe it was 36 mph, 42.5 off and got all six balls, I'd have to look it up, that was a long time ago, I haven't ran a course in 20 years. When he would practice he'd open up at 36 and 32 off, his ski would make a screaming sound up on edge cutting through the wake. Good times!
32 and 28 off are good line lengths. I lose that tug of war every time, and I am at 15 off. It takes a lot of practice.
 
I went to see Regan speak Live in April of 1989 at ASU. I asked my wife, whom I'd just met to skip class to go with me to see someone who many considered to be The Great Communicator weather they agreed with his ideas or not. She's a rule keeper and went to class and once in a while when he is flashed up on TV she expresses regret at not going with me that day. I'm really glad I went.

That line about distrust of big government over reach was delivered so well but it was not something he coined, it was lifted from other sources and had been around awhile. Regan wasn't an anarchist and he was very much a rule of law guy which put him at odds with many citizens of California in the 70's when, for example, as Governor he was against softening marijuana penalties. So he was very much a law and order guy.

A Big Federal Government built Glen Canyon dam, Is strong enough to regulate capitalism and provides guard rails in all kinds of ways. I think Regan realized that

I'd like some rules from Park Service, an extension of that Federal Government that say something like: Because of the extraordinary size and power of the Wakes Surf generating boats create they must stay 1000 feet from shore when surfing or face up to a $1,500 fine. Something like that could keep them out of the small coves, give the anglers and kayakers a chance in there and give me something to point to when I buzz out to talk to them 15 people to 1 to ask them not to pound my houseboat and campsite into oblivion. I don't think a rule like that will lead to communism on Lake Powell
My dad took me to see Reagan at San Diego's Fashion Valley Mall in 1984 during his re-election campaign. I was too young to vote in that election but, I came of political age during the Reagan presidency. Yeah, I can't say I disagree with your characterization of 1960s/70s/80s federal government...but, that's not what we have now. As for 1000ft, I did some Google map measurements around Powell...1000ft would certainly keep them out of the smaller coves...as well as the main channel in many locations. In many many parts of the lake outside the larger bays and coves, it would be hard to stay 1000 feet away from a point of land...that's probably a bit too limiting in my book.
 
First time I barefooted, I learned from a boom. After I mastered that, my buddy who had been barefooting for years thought it would be a good idea for me to try long lining it.
Long lining simply means starting like a water skier starts. 75 foot rope, wrap your feet around the rope, the boats floors it, the barefooter arches his back and if done correctly, you start skooting on your back with feet forward. Once your going fast enough (38ish mph), you just stand up.
Anyway, I was in swim trunks only. I couldn't figure out what why my buddy was laughing his *** off. Well, that was until I started skooting along on my back. Around 20 mph I realized why he was cracking up.
I'll skip the gory details but let's just say that I crapped lake water for a week.
I didn't find it particularly amusing.
 
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First time I barefooted, I learned from a boom. After I mastered that, my buddy who had been barefooting for years thought it would be a good idea for me to try long lining it.
Long lining simply means starting like a water skier starts. 75 foot rope, wrap your feet around the rope, the boats floors it, the barefooter arches his back and if done correctly, you start skooting on your back with feet forward. Once your going fast enough (38ish mph), you just stand up.
Anyway, I was in swim trunks only. I couldn't figure out what why my buddy was laughing his *** off. Well, that was until I started skooting along on my back. Around 20 mph I realized why he was cracking up.
I'll skip the gory details but let's just say that I crapped lake water for a week.
I didn't find it particularly amusing.
Fanny dunker are the way to go, I used them while slalom skiing also. Alot of the barefooters back in the day used a wet suit with built-in floatation.
 
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Wake Surfing after dark is dangerous on a hard bottomed lake like Powell and someone is going to get killed if it becomes the in thing to try!

Some topics have been discussed to death on these pages but I'm not sure Surf Boats are one of them yet. These comments may cross that line but it's a different perspective

With all the time I spend out on the lake I've got rude or clueless surf boat operator stories just like most of you do from just this past summer. There are probably only 10 such stories and only the names dates and times differ so I won't bore you with my versions, you've probably heard someone's version of them or experienced them for yourself already.

People who enjoy recreating with their families and friends by surfing are very passionate about it and the Wake Surfing Scene is something young people are crazy for; It's the new thing and it's probably here to stay.

This weekend I'm returning to Powell and hosting a friend of over thirty years on my houseboat. We met through a private water ski lake just outside Phoenix back in 1994. He seemed old at the time, my oldest friend, he was 36 and I was 26. 😂 He always thought like a much younger person and still does. We were both very passionate about slalom skiing and used to get into small time tournaments in the local slalom ski scene. We both had weekend trailers out there on the lake and we used to laugh at ourselves around our winter fires at night (yes we'd ski in the winter there) over our obsession to just go around those little balls over and over again trying to better and improve our times but it was almost the only thing both of us wanted to do. It drove our wives a bit crazy.

He was telling me that he ran into one of the folks from back in the day who was involved in organizing tournaments at a national level and still is and that she was saying that soon the sport of slalom skiing will be dead; That water skis aren't selling anymore. She went onto say not enough (almost zero) young people are
interested in Slalom Sliing. She said that in her opinion within two years the Pro Tour events will be over, that almost no one is coming to watch the events. The pipeline of people coming up through the sport is almost empty and that water ski manufacturers are going out of business.

I've been out as a guest a few times out of the marina on Surf Boats with friends and their kids. I was invited and they were so excited about it and I wanted to check it out for myself and see what it was all about; I like to see young people doing something besides looking into plastic screens and for them to be really involved in something. I have a healthy dislike for surf wakes so it seemed strange to finally ride in one. It reminded me of Slalom Skiing in the way you just do the same thing over and over and in the way they are passionate about it with a few major differences.

With Slalom Skiing you needed very specific conditions like perfectly glassy flat water, a tiny soft frothy almost nonexistent wake and a slalom course. To get a tiny wake you need a tiny light weight boat and almost no one in it. The conditions had to be very specific and perfect for you to run your best times. It was a very quantitative time, speed distance kind of pursuit. It was a sport built for A type competitive folks who border on OCD. People could only watch from the shore and wait their turn.

With Surfing it seems much more social and communal. The boats are huge by comparison and the more weight in them, the more bodies in them the better. Everyone can participate and watch each other together and all you need is a Surfboat and a board. (or a friend who has one) The conditions of the water surface can be down right awful, once we went out in near white cap conditions right in the channel and the kids could still surf being protected from the chop by the wake. Those differences are some of the reasons I think it's caught on in such a big way.

My old slalom buddy and I were discussing my few outings and the Wake Surf Scene and he said that he could see why young guys like it. It's a sunny day on the lake and you're on a boat with a group of friends and you can all do it together and show off for your girlfriends but you can watch them too. He said he gets it and that if he was in his 20's again he'd like it too.

With the popularity of Wake Surfing and all the money involved from the outrageous prices the manufactures get for the boats these days I think Wake Surfing will endure. They will aggressively lobby against any and all restrictions or regulations through manufacturers associations the same way off road vehicle manufactures do.

However the damage Wake Surf Machines are doing to Lake Powell and the quiet enjoyment of others is real. The wake surf breaks on the shoreline and into other water craft like small ocean waves. They come pounding in on the beaches and erode them and as rollers on the lake they go on seemingly forever. I'll sometimes get caught in between two or three of them coming in from different directions and it rolls by runabout. For houseboats on the shoreline they can really give your boat a pounding even though they are the legal minimum 150 feet or more behind you. Last year I was beached and a guy thought he was being considerate I guess being 300 feet or so behind me but he just kept going back and forth behind me all day. He wasn't doing anything wrong and that's the point.

In my opinion we need some real regulations on Surf boating that are updated to today's realities. Government won't come out and enforce it but it would give me something to talk about with the operators. Im not above zipping out on my jet ski or in my runabout when my houseboat is beached to discuss their impact on me in a calm and rational way but when they aren't doing anything illegal all I'm doing is complaining. I hate to see what was once a beautiful lake where most people had respect most of the time for each other devolve into one upsmanship and acts of retribution. Regulations could help prevent that to a point by having an updated written standard.

Absence a written regulation I'm just an old guy telling them to get off my lawn
Wake boats are doing very real damage to shoreline flora and fauna.
The EPA will be along in next year or two to weigh in on the problem.
The operators of wakeboats COULD self police themselves now to draw things out?
I just made myself lol….
 
First time I barefooted, I learned from a boom. After I mastered that, my buddy who had been barefooting for years thought it would be a good idea for me to try long lining it.
Long lining simply means starting like a water skier starts. 75 foot rope, wrap your feet around the rope, the boats floors it, the barefooter arches his back and if done correctly, you start skooting on your back with feet forward. Once your going fast enough (38ish mph), you just stand up.
Anyway, I was in swim trunks only. I couldn't figure out what why my buddy was laughing his *** off. Well, that was until I started skooting along on my back. Around 20 mph I realized why he was cracking up.
I'll skip the gory details but let's just say that I crapped lake water for a week.
I didn't find it particularly amusing.
Footin’ was the best. We didn’t have a boom in the early ‘70’s, just Dad’s 19’ Glastron Tri-hull with the famous 115 Merc Tower Of Power.

To teach ourselves barefootin’ at Lake Perris, CA, we got up on an old wooden slalom ski (from a pair of doubles), floored the Glastron, stepped the back foot out, gradually increased weight on that foot until we were able to drop the ski and plant the other foot. The ski was left floating until the end of the barefoot run. One time we returned to find someone retrieving our ski.

So to solve that problem, on the ski we painted a green four leaf clover covered by a red circle with a line through it. Below that we painted in black letters “This is NOT your lucky day. Please return me to the water and a barefoot skier will be back to get me.”

Looking back we didn’t consider how dumb that was leaving a hazard on the water, but at daybreak back then we generally had the lake to ourselves.

What a great upbringing, bunch of teenagers up before dawn to find some glass and Dads that trusted us enough to loan us the station wagon and boat keys.

For that reason I’m torn about wake boating. On the one hand the wakes are destructive and some operators are inconsiderate. On the other, seeing kids get into outdoor sports and off their devices is a very good thing in so many ways.
 
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