Transfer single ownership (part of a group)

Scott Carter

New Member
I am part of a group membership on a house boat in the slip at Bull Frog. I wanted to sell a portion of my membership (only 1/8th) of the group memberships to another person. We are only talking about one membership of 10-16 members in this boat. Do I need to use any specific form or notify Aramark, Bullfrog Executive Services or anyone else as I transfer my ownership in the boat to another party? This in no way affects anything with the handling of our boat or accounts. Thank you in advance. Scott
 

nzaugg

Well-Known Member
You are required to fill out this form: https://www.lakepowellmarinas.com/media/25815/moorage-ownership-transfer-packet.pdf
and pay the appropriate fees to Aramark ($300+1% of sale price). There is a lot of information to fill out for both the current owner and the new owner. On one of our boats, we had it a little easier for some reason and they would just call over to Bullfrog and get it done and they weren't required to pay (I think due to a very old moorage agreement) while our current boat at Halls is following the current requirements exactly. It may be worth looking into what your boat's moorage agreement requires or if it is covered by the current agreement.
 

Ed_on_WD

Well-Known Member
Also, before you go so far as to notify Aramark, check with your insurance company. Most insurers are getting really picky about new owners on multi owner boats, and if the new guy won't be coverable, you'll have to back out of the sale.

Our insurance provider wants to see documentation of a history as a veteran private boat owner, and previous houseboating experience. They are going to be leery of newbies. If the insurer doesn't cover the new owner, and something results in a claim, coverage will be denied, and all the other owners will be screwed.

I'm sure you really don't want to go there.
 

Scott Carter

New Member
Thanks Ryan,
We are only transferring a 1/2 share between two existing owners that have already been owners on the boat for years and both are already listed and covered on the insurance. This should have no impact on Aramark what so ever. This is simply a 1/2 share transfer between two existing owners.
 

Scott Carter

New Member
Our boat is also under an LLC, with 8 shares. We’re not introducing anything new, simply adjusting current conditions.
 

Michael Pyle

Active Member
If it’s just changing the LLC bylaws I don’t see why Armark should have anything to do with it.

Personally the rule that you have to pay them a commission is ridiculous.

If I am going to sell my houseboat and they want a piece of the pie I would just pull the boat the day the transaction took place. They can pound sand.

No reason they should get anything for something they added zero value to.

Mike
 

Scott

Active Member
If it’s just changing the LLC bylaws I don’t see why Armark should have anything to do with it.

Personally the rule that you have to pay them a commission is ridiculous.

If I am going to sell my houseboat and they want a piece of the pie I would just pull the boat the day the transaction took place. They can pound sand.

No reason they should get anything for something they added zero value to.

Mike
This is a great point! I would read through the moorage agreement, but if the boat is not on the lake at the time of the sale, I don't see how Aramark would be able to take a fee in the transaction.
 

nzaugg

Well-Known Member
I can see where transferring out of the ownership group would need to be reported to Aramark, even if the ownership transfer occurred while the boat was off the water, since Aramark needs to know who the boat's owners are for confirming the boat isn't being used as a rental. However, with a transfer within the ownership group of partial shares, I don't see the point of reporting anything to Aramark. There is no real transfer of ownership except that the share percentages change.

I guess our ownership group had issues with share reporting and taking owners off the title before we joined which caused a paperwork/payment issue when there was a total loss claim on the previous boat. However, you should be able to get the ownership shares straightened out when the next out of group owner comes aboard with Aramark. Just make sure the insurance is aware of the ownership shares or contacts.
 

Michael Pyle

Active Member
Aramark only needs to know about the LLC that is the owner of the boat. The individuals do not own the boat. And a trust can own a LLC. So there could be no personal owners only managers of the LLC owned by a trust.

This entire scam came about because only certain companies are allowed to have commercial transactions on the lake. They want to control as much as they can and get paid for it. But they can not control what happens off the lake.

Just because they put all this crap in a slip lease agreement does not make it legal or right.

A LLC can own a lot of things including a boat on Lake Powell but other businesses off lake. Aramark can not control what LLC’s are doing off the lake. And to be honest I don’t think they have any legal right over LLC’s on the lake. But I doubt anyone has fought them on it yet.

Mike
 

Ryan

Keeper of San Juan Secrets
I guess our ownership group had issues with share reporting and taking owners off the title before we joined which caused a paperwork/payment issue when there was a total loss claim on the previous boat.
Fwiw, I’ve had experience with a houseboat with a total loss on the lake. Aramark wasn’t involved in the claim process at all. Just the insurance carrier (Markel, who was difficult to deal with).

I also agree with Michael and Bart, if the houseboat is in an LLC (which it should be) I don’t think you are required to notify Aramark.
 

nzaugg

Well-Known Member
Fwiw, I’ve had experience with a houseboat with a total loss on the lake. Aramark wasn’t involved in the claim process at all. Just the insurance carrier (Markel, who was difficult to deal with).

I also agree with Michael and Bart, if the houseboat is in an LLC (which it should be) I don’t think you are required to notify Aramark.
I didn't mean to imply that Aramark was involved in that process, since they were not, but I think that their paperwork was a little sloppy overall, which lead to the original president being listed on the LLC and insurance documents as the person to whom the check was to be written. Now the group is fastidious about making sure all the paperwork is correct.

Also, yes the LLC is contracted for the slip, but Aramark requires notification about the ownership, since the slips are limited to owners of boats and invited guests. The forms require identification of all shareholders on the moorage form. You are subject to the moorage agreement if you are going to occupy their slip. The brokerage requirement is stupid though, which NPS requiring boat owners to use Aramark's brokerage services. Charging $300 plus 1% of the sale price seems to be out and out theft. I also noticed that you are only permitted to own shares in 2 boats on the lake that are using Aramark slips.

The exclusivity of Aramark's agreement is detrimental to the development of services on the lake (particularly on the north end) and is one of the biggest mistakes the NPS has made with respect to facilities at Lake Powell. Lack of investment in the north lake facilities is leading to a downward spiral, sucking all the big boats and visitation to the south lake, which in turn becomes more crowded, which leads to lower proportional visitation.
 

Kevin G

Well-Known Member
Go to this page: Boat Brokerage Services | Lake Powell Marinas
Look at the Moorage Transfer Form - appears Aramark's position is that the fee and 1% is required even in the case of transfers of shares. I believe this is their mechanism for keeping up records about boat ownership. While I don't personally agree they should receive a fee and commission when there is a change of a share of ownership, they appear to have a different rule in their moorage agreement. The ol' golden rule - whoever has the gold makes the rules.
 

Jr B

Active Member
I also believe what they are looking for is same share/weeks flipping every year, that could look suspicious to them as the boat is acting more like a "rental". Years ago our ownership had 30+ owners listed and Aramark/NPS reduced that to 18 max owners to try to get business back to Aramark rentals. I believe they were seeing this as a loss revenue stream when you have large group of owners listed on a boat. Now a lot of this has solidified with all the insurance issues, but back in the day when they went to limit 18 owners I'm sure this was part of reasoning and need to notify Aramark of changes..
 
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