The Colorado River is drying up because of climate change, putting millions at risk of 'severe water shortages' - CNN

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@Mildog
Neither the fundamentalist kept quoting exodus and job. Then paleontologist kept going to fossil records and carbon dating. In the end, you just had science and faith going at it. At one point the paleontologist turned so red, I thought that he was going to stroke out. I also realized it just doesn’t matter. We all die in the end some just suffer more than others.
 
Mildog said:
Ok, For fun I spent the last better part of an hour doing some research on Sea Level, you can find just about whatever you want to hear if you dig enough. And it was on the internet so it has to be TRUE!! LOL I found one site where "ecperts" were arguing and bashing each others arguments data Etc, Both directions !! Quite funny.
Nasa says 2.8 inches over 25 years, ( and many dispute that) which interestingly 1/2 of that is said to be from warmer ocean waters ( water as most things do expands when warm) so if that number is accurate in 100 years Sea levels would rise 11.2 inches with all other things remaining the same. That is unlikely since things always change and it may get cooler (Data shows Antarctic ice mass is actually growing right now) Yet some are predicting sea level will rise over a 4 FEET by the end of the century. If things increase as they are saying it would be more like 8.9 inches. Now for something very interesting.
The Sea level has been tracked in New Zealand for over 100 years. Data shows a STEADY 1.6MM per year rise (.062 inch. No increase in that rate due to recent Global warming. So if you multiply that average rate over 25 years it should rise about 1.6 inches per 25 years. So its doing what it has always done... Just having some fun. Hope no one is offended. I need to get back to not working. Pray for more water for the lake, and keep it in their so the seal level doesn't rise!!! Have a great day!!!!
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The last major ice age ended with warming about 15 - 18K years ago. At the lowest sea level was about 350 feet below current. As evidenced by the collapse of the Cenotes in Mexico and central America. Several "Great Blue Holes" are destination (i.e. Belize, Caymans et all) diving sites. The limestone caverns developed, then the rise caused roof collapse. Sea level has risen ever since, at rates up to 0.46 feet per decade (10-15K years ago), to 0.44 feet per decade today (20th century). It basically has stabilized as we move (very slooooowly) towards another ice age!!! I'm not worried - probably take another 1000 years!!
 
In terms of industrial processes, no question that poorer countries produce more pollutants. But it’s impossible to look at poor countries in isolation, when in fact consumers in rich countries depend on those countries to produce stuff they want. And in general, people here in the USA like the stuff they buy to be cheap and abundant. And the only way that happens is if those things are manufactured cheaply, which generally means in countries like India, China and Vietnam, where labor is cheap, and manufacturing practices are less encumbered by environmental laws that would otherwise minimize emissions.

Now if we all agreed in the USA and other affluent nations to pay more money for our products made from less environmentally damaging materials than plastic, or using processes that minimize emissions, it might help the pollution problem, but it would cripple the economies of China and India, not to mention ours, because things would be more expensive than most people can afford. So in an odd sort of way, less economic output (not more) would be better for the planet’s health... but of course worse for most humans standard of living...

Ideally, people want things to be good, fast and cheap. But in general, it is possible to attain any two of these things but not all three. In the USA, many (most?) people want a lot of stuff, cheap and fast. Quality is less important, because at the right price, they’d rather replace something with an updated cheap product. Unless those values change, we will maintain the global economic structure we have now, where we are all in it together in terms of responsibility for what ails the planet...

...and again, it all comes down to population...
 
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When you have lines outside the Apple store to get the latest and greatest iPhone when released, that always makes me shake my head.

Little do people think (or know) that a new cell phone takes 100's of hours to put together starting with mining processes and finishing up with shipment across the ocean in diesel burning vessels and then "clean idle" semi trucks in the US to their final destinations. There is nothing "clean" with most of the things we buy. Just like a deadbolt on your door. It's an illusion of security to make yourself feel better.

Yes, population plays a huge factor due to just sheer numbers of items sold. Like my wife and I say, it's a throw away nation in today's world. There aren't TV repair men with a van full of "tubes" anymore. The dumpster is right there and Wally World is just around the corner. The more we buy, the more processes need to happen.

Again, a revolving door.
 
John P Funk said:
Don't forget India. The solution is not taxes, it's increasing economic output. Richer countries pollute less, see USA as example. It seems contradictory, but facts are facts.
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Like I said, America is actually very green no matter what activists think. We are making great strides on being green but we are the ones activist target for protests. But a protest in China will get you prison time, and Ghandi got 2089 days in prison in India for political unrest (protesting). The reason why we see the protests here is because they have a right to without punishment. Poorer countries don't have that luxury.
 
What is crazy, is on the world meter population site. The earth’s population growth is roughly gaining by 120,000,000 a year. If the covd 19 turns out to be a worst case scenario and 90,000,000 people die. The earth recovers that population in less than year.
 
Dave I. said:
Most ironic thing about this is if you look around your house, try to name one thing that has been made in modern times that has not in one shape or form created a carbon footprint thru oil or gas exploitation. The demand is so high for those things that more than likely, nothing will change.

Your cell phone, laptop, desktop, plasma TV and ANY other electrical devices are 100% extracted materials and made, in part, from oil.

Your car, motorcycle and even bicycles are all extracted materials and require petroleum products to keep functioning.

Your home heat in the winter and air conditioning in the summer all require mining and extraction of oil and gas in one shape or form. Yes, even solar!!!

The only way you could do a total protest against climate change is to give up anything electrical, live naked in a cave and hope it doesn't get cold because it probably takes a long time to cut up a tree with a home made rock ax.

So, getting on an electrical device to say we need to do better is actually counter productive. Kinda like taking your plastic kayak to protest drilling.

And if you think deeper into this, these electrical devices all come from China. Who's putting in NEW coal fired powerplants? They need oil, gas and electricity to build the things that Americans crave. Americans are fueling China's need for electricity. It's a true revolving door.

So yes, population expansion is a major factor also.

I'm not looking to start any kind of argument here. These are just facts that some people don't want to hear.

Happy boating my friends. :)
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Don't think you have to worry about Greta Thunberg visiting you anytime soon... She's boring anyway. And a hypocrite
 
I am enjoying this conversation, and the differing views of the facts presented. For some reason I think most of you have to much time on your hands? None the less, I wonder what my great grandfather would of thought if he could of somehow been able to see the house I live in. One without a wood burning stove to cook on and heat the place. One where you simply walk over to the wall and set the temp. Or, turning on a faucet and getting water, with out going to the pump outside and hauling it in. What would he of thought about hot water coming out of the faucet? Miracles he never imagined that we take for granted. I say go fishing and enjoy, because everything has it's time. And when these current problems find a solution we will be just as amazed as my great grandfather at seeing hot water come out of the wall.
 
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Your Grandpa would probably be like mine and integrate nicely. He already saw amazing changes in his life and probably got along just fine. How old are you? You're grandpa never saw hot water coming out of a faucet? Wow.
 
We all see changes it today's world just because things are changing so fast.

Look at it this way, the first home computer was released in 1977. In 1977, who would have ever thought a computer 5000% more powerful would fit in the palm of your hand. Change will always happen.

But, back on subject, great changes have been done for the planet and, of course we need to keep up the effort, but no matter what mankind does, the earth will still keep changing her climate.

When one coal fired plant closes in the US, China and India have build 3 more. Again, it needs to be a global effort
 
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Just watched an interesting segment on 60 Minutes and they are reporting on the ice race tradition of the Netherlands known as Elfstedentocht

I bring it up here because they haven't been able to hold the race in the Netherlands for 20 years because it hasn't been cold enough to form enough ice to hold all the skaters. But now the world is going to end in 10 years, hmm

Also interesting read:
climatechangedispatch.com

Doomsdays That Didn’t Happen: 50 Years Of Failed Climate Predictions

A newly compiled list of dire predictions, from famine to droughts to ice ages to disappearing nations, shows how eco-zealots keep getting doomsday wrong.
climatechangedispatch.com climatechangedispatch.com
 
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Here's the funny thing about humans-- they don't mind the possibility of bad things happening, as long as those things are predictable. For example, there's a risk in driving to the store. Or parking your car for 15 minutes without putting coins in the meter while you get a cup of coffee. Or drinking milk a day past the expiration date. But we have a pretty good idea about the magnitude of those risks, and the likelihood of whether something bad might happen. So we are comfortable taking those risks, and don't worry too much about them. We whitewater raft, skydive, and fly in airplanes. All potentially crazy things, until you know the drill and can manage the risks.

For climate change, we really don't know what's ahead, or the magnitude and timing of change, or how it will affect things in every day life, so we can't get comfortable managing the risk. And that's why it's perceived as a human crisis.

Humans crave predictability, even over the idea of quality, or good outcomes. But climate change is unpredictable. Coronavirus (right now) is unpredictable. So we worry about those things. On the other hand, McDonald's is highly predictable, so even though the food isn't all that great and contributes to health problems, people love it...
 
An inconvenient fact, several studies have predicted if the earth warms a couple degrees or cools a couple degrees, there is greater benefit to mankind overall, food production, quality of life etc. if it WARMS.... not cools...…. This is interesting to see all of the various opinions and takes on things. I guess I am going to have to live 100 more years to see the outcome..... That could be tough if the planet ends in 12 years... I need to get more fishing trips to Powell planned to be safe.
 
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