The Colorado River is drying up because of climate change, putting millions at risk of 'severe water shortages' - CNN

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Havalina said:
It still goes back to population expansion. Do I believe in global warming, absolutely. Will other developing countries want to pitch in and help? No, To The vast majority of developing countries the concept of global warming is quite condescending. The first world has realized the issue, but we are not willing to change anything because it will affect our way of life. The third world countries feel like the first world is trying to prevent them from gaining equality or improving their way of life.

Is global warming man made this go around? Yes more than likely. Are we going to do anything about it? No not really, who wants to degrade their quality of life. Global warming is still just part of the malthusian cycle. It is really going to suck for the folks living just above sea level in a few years. We did it to ourselves. Thankfully our planet is a wonderful carbon sink and after we kill ourselves off. The earth will recover and maybe what ever species supersedes us will be better than we were taking care of the planet.
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I think your assessment is exactly on target...
 
Most ironic thing about this is if you look around your house, try to name one thing that has been made in modern times that has not in one shape or form created a carbon footprint thru oil or gas exploitation. The demand is so high for those things that more than likely, nothing will change.

Your cell phone, laptop, desktop, plasma TV and ANY other electrical devices are 100% extracted materials and made, in part, from oil.

Your car, motorcycle and even bicycles are all extracted materials and require petroleum products to keep functioning.

Your home heat in the winter and air conditioning in the summer all require mining and extraction of oil and gas in one shape or form. Yes, even solar!!!

The only way you could do a total protest against climate change is to give up anything electrical, live naked in a cave and hope it doesn't get cold because it probably takes a long time to cut up a tree with a home made rock ax.

So, getting on an electrical device to say we need to do better is actually counter productive. Kinda like taking your plastic kayak to protest drilling.

And if you think deeper into this, these electrical devices all come from China. Who's putting in NEW coal fired powerplants? They need oil, gas and electricity to build the things that Americans crave. Americans are fueling China's need for electricity. It's a true revolving door.

So yes, population expansion is a major factor also.

I'm not looking to start any kind of argument here. These are just facts that some people don't want to hear.

Happy boating my friends. :)
 
Come on, folks. My reading list is already too long (I just finished Educated, Rahm Emanuel's new book is on deck, and Giant is in the hole)! I can barely keep up as it is. Seriously, very helpful comments on an insidious issue.
 
Prognosticators have been predicting low lying areas of the US would be underwater by now !! Not going to happen in the very near future if ever. But it has happened before and man adjusted and relocated.
There is evidence actually suggesting we are entering a period of Global cooling. Which is why many have now quit using Global warming and just say Climate change. The science is still quite uncertain on man made effects to climate even though we are all told it is a proven fact. Just look back at the last couple hundred years of predictions,(by scientists) they are all over the place and none have been correct yet! Do I believe there is climate change YES, (its been changing for ever) how much man has to do with it is not proven. Some studies actually suggest that warming increases CO2 levels , not the other way around. By the way life can not exist without CO2. Should we do our best to not pollute our planet YES. Should we destroy our economies overnight to stop Climate change NO. If we did all things climate "experts" suggest, we would have a very insignificant impact (by their own numbers) so if making all of these changes have an almost immeasurable effect how much can we be actually impacting it????The US is leading the way in lower emissions without total destruction of our lifestyles and redistribution of income around the world. IMHO Innovation and market forces over time will solve many problems. There are many that will profit from Climate change hysteria, follow the money, its always about the money. Ask Al he has enriched himself and most of his predictions have fallen flat in just a short time.
We should all do our best to protect our home planet for sure. My two cents worth, sorry for the rant....
 
Mildog said:
Prognosticators have been predicting low lying areas of the US would be underwater by now !! Not going to happen in the very near future if ever. But it has happened before and man adjusted and relocated.
There is evidence actually suggesting we are entering a period of Global cooling. Which is why many have now quit using Global warming and just say Climate change. The science is still quite uncertain on man made effects to climate even though we are all told it is a proven fact. Just look back at the last couple hundred years of predictions,(by scientists) they are all over the place and none have been correct yet! Do I believe there is climate change YES, (its been changing for ever) how much man has to do with it is not proven. Some studies actually suggest that warming increases CO2 levels , not the other way around. By the way life can not exist without CO2. Should we do our best to not pollute our planet YES. Should we destroy our economies overnight to stop Climate change NO. If we did all things climate "experts" suggest, we would have a very insignificant impact (by their own numbers) so if making all of these changes have an almost immeasurable effect how much can we be actually impacting it????The US is leading the way in lower emissions without total destruction of our lifestyles and redistribution of income around the world. IMHO Innovation and market forces over time will solve many problems. There are many that will profit from Climate change hysteria, follow the money, its always about the money. Ask Al he has enriched himself and most of his predictions have fallen flat in just a short time.
We should all do our best to protect our home planet for sure. My two cents worth, sorry for the rant....
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For a geological perspective - read "Inconvenient Facts" by Gregory Wrightstone. Shows all the "climate changes" for the last 600 million years - based on geologic FACTS. Also shows the bogus hysterical greenie Barbara Striesand propaganda!! JM$2 cents. (I have been in the water and geology biz for 50 yrs or so, mostly in the Colo River region, not that that makes me an expert!!
 
For me, the most interesting perspective is at Thanksgiving. One brother is a climate scientist, my other brother has worked at Exxon for 35 years, and I’m an environmental consultant working in the California regulatory framework. The funny thing is, when it comes to issues surrounding climate change, we’re in 100% agreement...

For an energy company, all they want to know is what the regulations are, and they will adjust to try to dominate the market. They are fully invested in other forms of energy, but as with anybody else, will lobby for and take the path of least resistance. For a climate scientist, the facts are clear, and yes, data has its limitations.

For a consultant like me, you follow the laws, try to guide your clients, and do the practical thing. As for climate change, it’s happening, we’re generally responsible for the accelerated pace of things in the short-term, understanding that long-term cycles have nothing to do with us. Our concern as humans is how it might affect our ability to plan, since rapid change means unpredictability, and unpredictability costs money and can displace people. In the end, people adjust, but if we cause our own demise, the planet will adjust even faster...
 
I don't know anything about your brother that is a climate scientist. I am sure he is a stand up guy. I do know a researcher that works for a local university and he has admitted to me that to keep getting funds it is easier to take the path of least resistance, instead of following the facts or science that might go against the grain. Its difficult to be unbiased when you want to get money. Go with the flow to keep getting the dough. Follow the money...data is only as good as how it is used. Sadly some are altering or manipulating data to show what they want. The video posted earlier by Desert Lover is worth the watch. Heller who has pretty solid credentials using actual historical data shows where some agencies and scientists have actually "adjusted" or altered the same data to show what they want. I remember an article several years that showed how temperature recording stations that are no longer used have skewed the average planet temperatures to look like they are warming. Many of those stations were in colder regions of the globe in the former USSR. They are no longer in operation so the omission of those will in fact show warmer average temperatures.
Also we have consumed amny rural areas and put up cities, many stations that where out in the sticks are now in the middle of blacktop cities or parking lots, of course the temperatures will read warmer. Data is only as good as how it is used and sadly some are using it to create panic and fear and line their pockets.. Once again follow the money. I'm going to follow my money and use it for gas for the boat to go to Lake Powell soon, one of the great places on earth. Let it snow and rain for more water in the lake !!
 
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Mildog said:
I don't know anything about your brother that is a climate scientist. I am sure he is a stand up guy. I do know a researcher that works for a local university and he has admitted to me that to keep getting funds it is easier to take the path of least resistance, instead of following the facts or science that might go against the gran. Its difficult to be unbiased when you want to get money. Go with the flow to keep getting the dough. Follow the money...data is only as good as how it is used. Sadly some are altering or manipulating data to show what they want
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My brother is only a stand up guy when he’s standing up... otherwise, he’s sleeping like the rest of us...
 
So you are saying the researcher is guilty of fraud and readily admitting it? As far as the argument of how much man has to do with it. How do you explain inversion air quality in LA., or the air quality in China or India. The biggest issue on climate change is nuisance flooding and population displacement. According to NASA, sea level has risen roughly 3 in. since 1992. The cause and affect with pollution is everywhere. The earth‘s atmosphere is finite. We can track China’s pollution as it travels to the west coast. I can easily see the correlation, I have just accepted that we are not going to do anything about. I just love a good conspiracy theory though. Q
 
:eek:
Mildog said:
I don't know anything about your brother that is a climate scientist. I am sure he is a stand up guy. I do know a researcher that works for a local university and he has admitted to me that to keep getting funds it is easier to take the path of least resistance, instead of following the facts or science that might go against the grain. Its difficult to be unbiased when you want to get money. Go with the flow to keep getting the dough. Follow the money...data is only as good as how it is used. Sadly some are altering or manipulating data to show what they want. The video posted earlier by Desert Lover is worth the watch. Heller who has pretty solid credentials using actual historical data shows where some agencies and scientists have actually "adjusted" or altered the same data to show what they want. I remember an article several years that showed how temperature recording stations that are no longer used have skewed the average planet temperatures to look like they are warming. Many of those stations were in colder regions of the globe in the former USSR. They are no longer in operation so the omission of those will in fact show warmer average temperatures.
Also we have consumed amny rural areas and put up cities, many stations that where out in the sticks are now in the middle of blacktop cities or parking lots, of course the temperatures will read warmer. Data is only as good as how it is used and sadly some are using it to create panic and fear and line their pockets.. Once again follow the money. I'm going to follow my money and use it for gas for the boat to go to Lake Powell soon, one of the great places on earth. Let it snow and rain for more water in the lake !!
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Amen X 5!!
 
Havalina said:
So you are saying the researcher is guilty of fraud and readily admitting it? As far as the argument of how much man has to do with it. How do you explain inversion air quality in LA., or the air quality in China or India. The biggest issue on climate change is nuisance flooding and population displacement. According to NASA, sea level has risen roughly 3 in. since 1992. The cause and affect with pollution is everywhere. The earth‘s atmosphere is finite. We can track China’s pollution as it travels to the west coast. I can easily see the correlation, I have just accepted that we are not going to do anything about. I just love a good conspiracy theory though. Q
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Like I said, it would have to be a global effort to make a difference and I don' see China or India hopping on that "Yellow Submarine".
 
Havalina said:
So you are saying the researcher is guilty of fraud and readily admitting it? As far as the argument of how much man has to do with it. How do you explain inversion air quality in LA., or the air quality in China or India. The biggest issue on climate change is nuisance flooding and population displacement. According to NASA, sea level has risen roughly 3 in. since 1992. The cause and affect with pollution is everywhere. The earth‘s atmosphere is finite. We can track China’s pollution as it travels to the west coast. I can easily see the correlation, I have just accepted that we are not going to do anything about. I just love a good conspiracy theory though. Q
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Pollution is very real both air and water. It is the question of how much it is affecting the climate. Where I live the air quality is bad in the winter. But it was even worse in the 1920's . A dear friend who has since passed 20 years ago. He was 90 year old. He told stories of not seeing the sun for many days in a row and when it would finally snow it would be gray from all the soot from Coal and wood used to heat most homes. Lots of respiratory problems back then, As far as Fraud, You can call it whatever you want ! He doesn't view it that way I am sure. Just agreeing with the common thoughts. I Can tell you I know other people that I won't even mention their discipline or line of work, that get federal money to do things that they see as totally proper that many others would not. Imagine a person might do something that benefits them......……….. NO WAY!! As far as the NASA sea level rise figure I would like to see where that is and if it corroborated. Nasa is one that has altered existing Data to fit the current narrative. Guess where Nasa gets its money. Got to go with the flow to get their dough.......
 
Mildog said:
Pollution is very real both air and water. It is the question of how much it is affecting the climate. Where I live the air quality is bad in the winter. But it was even worse in the 1920's . A dear friend who has since passed 20 years ago. He was 90 year old. He told stories of not seeing the sun for many days in a row and when it would finally snow it would be gray from all the soot from Coal and wood used to heat most homes. Lots of respiratory problems back then, As far as Fraud, You can call it whatever you want ! He doesn't view it that way I am sure. Just agreeing with the common thoughts. I Can tell you I know other people that I won't even mention their discipline or line of work, that get federal money to do things that they see as totally proper that many others would not. Imagine a person might do something that benefits them......……….. NO WAY!! As far as the NASA sea level rise figure I would like to see where that is and if it corroborated. Nasa is one that has altered existing Data to fit the current narrative. Guess where Nasa gets its money. Got to go with the flow to get their dough.......
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Before the Mormon's settled Salt Lake Valley, the Indians called it Smoke Valley because, during the winter months, the smoke from their fires never left the valley - i.e. the temperature inversion that is now blamed on the recent growth along the Wasatch front existed long before the industrial revolution that is blamed many times for the Salt Lake Valley winter smog.
 
Mildog, are you saying there are scientists, consultants, politicians, etc who are operating under the "tell them what they want to hear" model in order to get better funding, be liked their peers/clients/voters, reduce stress, and work less hours? This is shocking information.
 
...and of course interesting to consider all these issues in terms of world population, because everything we do as individuals is magnified as the numbers get bigger. Estimates of historical world population vary, but the consensus goes something like this:

1 AD - 1000 AD - about 250 million, fairly stable in that time, ups and downs mostly a function of plague and drought
1000 - 1500 - about 300-500 million
1600 - 450-500 million
1700 - 600-650 million
1800 - 1 billion
1850 - 1.2 billion
1900 - 1.6 billion
1930 - 2 billion
1950 - 2.5 billion
1960 - 3 billion
1970 - 3.7 billion
1980 - 4.4 billion
1990 - 5.3 billion
2000 - 6.1 billion
2010 - 6.9 billion
2020 - 7.7 billion (estimated)

That's the problem...
 
Havalina said:
So you are saying the researcher is guilty of fraud and readily admitting it? As far as the argument of how much man has to do with it. How do you explain inversion air quality in LA., or the air quality in China or India. The biggest issue on climate change is nuisance flooding and population displacement. According to NASA, sea level has risen roughly 3 in. since 1992. The cause and affect with pollution is everywhere. The earth‘s atmosphere is finite. We can track China’s pollution as it travels to the west coast. I can easily see the correlation, I have just accepted that we are not going to do anything about. I just love a good conspiracy theory though. Q
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Ok, For fun I spent the last better part of an hour doing some research on Sea Level, you can find just about whatever you want to hear if you dig enough. And it was on the internet so it has to be TRUE!! LOL I found one site where "ecperts" were arguing and bashing each others arguments data Etc, Both directions !! Quite funny.
Nasa says 2.8 inches over 25 years, ( and many dispute that) which interestingly 1/2 of that is said to be from warmer ocean waters ( water as most things do expands when warm) so if that number is accurate in 100 years Sea levels would rise 11.2 inches with all other things remaining the same. That is unlikely since things always change and it may get cooler (Data shows Antarctic ice mass is actually growing right now) Yet some are predicting sea level will rise over a 4 FEET by the end of the century. If things increase as they are saying it would be more like 8.9 inches. Now for something very interesting.
The Sea level has been tracked in New Zealand for over 100 years. Data shows a STEADY 1.6MM per year rise (.062 inch. No increase in that rate due to recent Global warming. So if you multiply that average rate over 25 years it should rise about 1.6 inches per 25 years. So its doing what it has always done... Just having some fun. Hope no one is offended. I need to get back to not working. Pray for more water for the lake, and keep it in their so the seal level doesn't rise!!! Have a great day!!!!
 
Havalina said:
The best time I ever had was on a plane flying back from Japan, where I was able to listen to a paleontologist argue with Christen fundamentalist about weather or not humans walked with dinosaurs. One of the few times in my life where I just kept my mouth shut.🙈
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Well did they ?? I need to know. I thought they just rode on their backs LOL
 
JFRCalifornia said:
...and of course interesting to consider all these issues in terms of world population, because everything we do as individuals is magnified as the numbers get bigger. Estimates of historical world population vary, but the consensus goes something like this:

1 AD - 1000 AD - about 250 million, fairly stable in that time, ups and downs mostly a function of plague and drought
1000 - 1500 - about 300-500 million
1600 - 450-500 million
1700 - 600-650 million
1800 - 1 billion
1850 - 1.2 billion
1900 - 1.6 billion
1930 - 2 billion
1950 - 2.5 billion
1960 - 3 billion
1970 - 3.7 billion
1980 - 4.4 billion
1990 - 5.3 billion
2000 - 6.1 billion
2010 - 6.9 billion
2020 - 7.7 billion (estimated)

That's the problem...
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To expand on this note, for the last decade, it estimates 800,000,000 new humans joined the planet. That comes out to a mere 152 children born every minute the past decade. From the looks of it, about every 20 - 30 years the number jumps up another 200,000,000. At that rate, by 2030, we should see an increase to 1,000,000,000 people every decade.

Nope, don't see any problem here at all because they will all be past the digital age. (sarcasm)
 
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