Sierra club environmental impact study, midlake gas & ******* wake boat drivers - none are good

B

bubba

Well-Known Member
Hmmm

Not a tree hugger by any measure but it may be a good time to call up and make a donation to the Sierra Club with concerning questions about environmental impact of a big gas boat at midlake powell. Get these sierra club or green peace guys stomping around a courtroom and they can slow things down to a crawl and even make some waves even bigger than the mightiest wake boat.

Who actually inspects the vessels holding the gas and to what standard are they built to. Chances are high if it is Aramark gear it will not pass an inspection Especially if it involves any wind. What environmental protection measures do they have in place for containment in event of breach. What fire suppression is there - if main docks are any hint then the answer is near zero. All Aramark cares about is its $10/gal gas up there. Limit the gas price to be no more than $1 more than Page and all motivation about this gas boat goes away.

Powell has been infected and taken over by bully ******* wakeboat drivers with zero respect and zero fear because there is none - NPS is nowhere to be found.

NPS needs to get a patrol boat up to Padre everyday and start issues citations and impounded boats for unsafe and nuisance operation and also issue a few citations to wake drivers for just being ********.

Can anyone post how they camped next to a lovely family with a wake boat - has that ever ever happened.

Every single wake boat I have ever seen just pounds the **** out of the beach and every houseboat in every canyon.

Gas at midlake is a bad idea.

Restrict wakeboats to below 25 and in main channel only. Restrict them in every side canyon unless hand powered by oar.
 
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The problem is the Sierra Club won't stop with wake boats. If they get wake boats banned they will use the prescedent to go after all powerboats. That's how they operate. They tried the same thing around 20 or so years ago with jet skis. Fortunately enough folks smelled out their plan that it didn't succeed.

Don't get in bed with those people. They won't stop until they have control of everything. The leadership doesn't care about the environment. The environment is just a tool to achieve a bigger goal.

Ed Gerdemann
 
Wake boats. Amen, Bubba, amen. But don't ya know, education can enlighten these neanderthals?? Flyers at the launch ramps
will surely change their behavior!! Put another Dangling Rope Marina 'mid-lake' and spread the disease. Powell formerly
commanded reverence and awe. Maybe, just maybe, we whom love Powell can retain some of that majesty between buoys
42 and the Escalante by sacrificing DR? And do NOT take politicians on a field trip. Once those geeks realize the fuel inefficiency
of most watercraft, not only will you not get another DR, you will lose fuel on the lake totally due to 'climate change'. Yes, I miss
the ice cream also, but my vote is to leave it alone as is for the sake of sanity. There will never be enough NPS personnel to
enforce compliance of law and order and decency. I wish it were not so - just wanna fish and sight see in peace.
 
bubba said:
Can anyone post how they camped next to a lovely family with a wake boat - has that ever ever happened.
Click to expand...
It's happened to me. We have a fishing boat and that's pretty much all we do at Powell. Wake boats are not vacation killers. Their waves are annoying but the lake is 200 miles long. I know plenty of amazing surf boat owners. Surf boats are no less annoying than houseboats.

I don't want more police on the lake. That's one of the reasons I go there. I'll take surf boats over more laws and law enforcement.
 
Ultimately the United States Coast Guard (USCG) inspects and certifies vessels carrying hazardous cargos for navigable waters within the contiguous United States (USCG - COC). Furthermore, such vessels must comply with CFR Title 33[CFR 33].

Hazard/Emergency containment is a risk that a "plan" must be approved by USCG as well and is addressed within Title 33. Certainly it would be a tragedy should a major spill/incident occur and we'd all be saying; "I TOLD YOU SO!"

Notwithstanding, I see the appeal of not having additional intralake fuel availability. However, I must also concede not having that available limits accessibility for many folks (e.g., boat renters) who simply desire to see the beautiful landscape of our fine Country. I, for one, do not like the idea that Lake Powell appears to be coming a rich man's playground more and more. Not having additional infrastructure only promotes that further. To be clear, I am spoiled rotten! I get to hang out on an air-conditioned houseboat with all the additional creature comforts that implies. I do not ever want to be accused of putting my enjoyment ahead of the rights of the family that has skimped and saved all year (years???) to be able to come out and rent a runabout or pontoon boat for a couple of days so they can embrace the majesty of Lake Powell that I sometimes, admittedly, take for granted.

The discourtesy, combined with ignorance and/or lack of education, of a few boaters angers me as well. I just like to thank, and admire, the conscientious boaters who are out there. Sunday, July 30, whilst hanging out at Antelope Point, I was shocked at the sight of no less than three houseboats (two of them private) barraging through the marina at full-cruise also while towing runabouts. Incredible and downright stupid... all within less than ten minutes.

Not bad-mouthing the NPS because I am certain there's a lot I don't understand about their operation model (or lack thereof). For the life of me, however, I also do not understand why they do not have a ranger(s) at the marina full-time with a simple radar gun issuing citations for anyone exceeding the greater of 5 M.P.H. or steerage way. During the issuance of citations they could take a 30-second opportunity to remind folks to be aware of their wake's potential impacts on boats hundreds of yards away. Aside from emergencies, there's just no reason not to throw the book at folks who exceed wakeless or infringe upon 150-foot proximity rules.

Sierra Club? Pomp and circumstance aside, not sure they have ever accomplished any actual/demonstrable good??? Floyd Dominy on the other hand... if I chose to idolize someone or their agenda he would be it at the drop of a hat.

Hopefully,the conscientious amongst us can continue to try to lead by example as best we can and maybe a few derelicts will take heed in the process..
 
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@The Oracle “ for one, do not like the idea that Lake Powell appears to be coming a rich man's playground more and more. Not having additional infrastructure only promotes that further. “

I completely agree. I don’t believe access to mid-lake refueling is a factor for many of the wake boats attached to the supersized houseboats. Those super sized houseboats carry enough fuel for the wakeboats to reach just about anywhere in the lake.

I selfishly enjoy the peace of the mid-lake without DR, but truly feel for how it’s limited access for tent campers, smaller houseboats and day trippers
 
The Oracle said:
...For the life of me, however, I also do not understand why they do not have a ranger(s) at the marina full-time with a simple radar gun issuing citations for anyone exceeding the greater of 5 M.P.H. or steerage way. During the issuance of citations they could take a 30-second opportunity to remind folks to be aware of their wake's potential impacts on boats hundreds of yards away. Aside from emergencies, there's just no reason not to throw the book at folks who exceed wakeless or infringe upon 150-foot proximity rules.
Click to expand...

When I first came to the Lake, while Antelope Point Marina was still under construction, I remember Navajo Police boats with triple outboards enforcing wakeless.

It was a great idea then, and it is still a great idea now. Why did they give up enforcement? I know it costs money for staff and equipment, but the knowledge that fines awaited those who blew through wakeless would hopefully slow the traffic down. And those who ignored the enforcement would be caught and fined and those fees would pay the cost of enforcement.

Seems like a Win-Win situation.
 
When the Sierra Club puts a target on something, well they just muddy the water and bring attention that just shuts things down for all concerned. as for more enforcement, well watch out for what you wish for when dealing with the WOKE political environment that thinks Taxing the working class and rich is the way to level things
 
Edward Gerdemann said:
The problem is the Sierra Club won't stop with wake boats. If they get wake boats banned they will use the prescedent to go after all powerboats. That's how they operate. They tried the same thing around 20 or so years ago with jet skis. Fortunately enough folks smelled out their plan that it didn't succeed.

Don't get in bed with those people. They won't stop until they have control of everything. The leadership doesn't care about the environment. The environment is just a tool to achieve a bigger goal.

Ed Gerdemann
Click to expand...
Yeh but nps banned two stroke jet skis saying exhaust pollutes water but let the 2 stroke outboards get a pass. They both exit exhaust into the water.

Enviro groups are very good and divide groups and conquer. They alianeted boaters to go with a ban on skis and targeting 2 strokes was easy since they were all 2 stroke then. But the boaters raised hell about outboards and got a pass.

Once they get rid of one class they repeat the cycle.
 
If you want to get rid of a Recreation in Lake Powell and work with Seirra Club, you might want to ban houseboats. They are the vehicle that allows all the mid lake access. Remove Houseboats and the lake will be good from those nasty wakeboard boats, at least outside of the launch ramp areas. Just kidding of course, I believe the lake is for all to use.

In my experience, you never want to buddy up with any Enviro groups, especially SC and CBD.
 
Wakeboard are a pain sometimes, the tour boat wake is a navigation hazard. But I also have a bone with houseboats. I use a 25 ft cruiser for shore camping. At three different nice shore sites on different occasions...I have had houseboats think there size/number of people overrule my needs. They camp close and throw large anchor lines across my lines and then we get to listen to the generator all night. At one location (west side of labyrinth) they actually put an anchor line across my stern (found when we returned from a hike) which prevented me from leaving without lifting it. Then they got pissy when we asked them to turn off music from outside stern speakers.

Lots of people now on lake, there is aways that fringe out there that don't care or don't know.

So I said it. No rules just common courtesy is needed.

...and those three special words "let it go"....and move on
 
Toohot2 said:
So I said it. No rules just common courtesy is needed.
Click to expand...
"You keep using that word, I don't think it means what you think it means.", Inigo Montoya, Princess Bride

Common Sense and Common Courtesy, I'm afraid, are relics in our modern "me first" society. What's the difference between ignorance and apathy? I don't know and I don't care. We go to Powell to get away from people and are normally pretty successful if we camp from Knowles north. It nearly drove me crazy/crazier when they closed the lake and tried to close Colorado mountains(thanks Polis) for Covid because people might congregate.
 
PowellBride said:
@The Oracle “ for one, do not like the idea that Lake Powell appears to be coming a rich man's playground more and more. Not having additional infrastructure only promotes that further. “

I completely agree. I don’t believe access to mid-lake refueling is a factor for many of the wake boats attached to the supersized houseboats. Those super sized houseboats carry enough fuel for the wakeboats to reach just about anywhere in the lake.

I selfishly enjoy the peace of the mid-lake without DR, but truly feel for how it’s limited access for tent campers, smaller houseboats and day trippers
Click to expand...
I disagree. We are beach campers in an old boat, and have always carried all our own fuel, can’t afford the convenience of Dangling Rope. Oak bay used to be a complete cluster of houseboats and wakeboard boats, now it’s Powell people. Sure the big boats might have the range and the capacity, but they aren’t going up lake with the marina gone.

I do miss the icecream, and being able to feed the carp without the Parkies blowing a gasket. When I was a kid the Parkies would hand out Kix cereal to feed the fish in the off season. How things have changed….
 
bubba said:
Hmmm

Not a tree hugger by any measure but it may be a good time to call up and make a donation to the Sierra Club with concerning questions about environmental impact of a big gas boat at midlake powell. Get these sierra club or green peace guys stomping around a courtroom and they can slow things down to a crawl and even make some waves even bigger than the mightiest wake boat.

Who actually inspects the vessels holding the gas and to what standard are they built to. Chances are high if it is Aramark gear it will not pass an inspection Especially if it involves any wind. What environmental protection measures do they have in place for containment in event of breach. What fire suppression is there - if main docks are any hint then the answer is near zero. All Aramark cares about is its $10/gal gas up there. Limit the gas price to be no more than $1 more than Page and all motivation about this gas boat goes away.

Powell has been infected and taken over by bully ******* wakeboat drivers with zero respect and zero fear because there is none - NPS is nowhere to be found.

NPS needs to get a patrol boat up to Padre everyday and start issues citations and impounded boats for unsafe and nuisance operation and also issue a few citations to wake drivers for just being ********.

Can anyone post how they camped next to a lovely family with a wake boat - has that ever ever happened.

Every single wake boat I have ever seen just pounds the **** out of the beach and every houseboat in every canyon.

Gas at midlake is a bad idea.

Restrict wakeboats to below 25 and in main channel only. Restrict them in every side canyon unless hand powered by oar.
Click to expand...
I agree with everything you say except supporting Sierra Club. The canyons should be off limits to any one towing anything and wake boats!! All canyons should be wake less.
They have brought this attitude on themselves just like the ATV's have caused roads to be closed because they couldn't stay on the designated paths. The NPS has no interest in enforcing boating laws. The only things you hear about are the nit picking things.
 
As to the wake boat equation here, I might suggest the following: Since we now have couple "wakeless canyons" for those that kayak and the like, why not have a designated wake boat area. The wake boaters still have a place to enjoy their chosen recreation, those that do not appreciate that recreation are not subjected to it unless by choice. I think the lake is big enough for us all to get along in this massive water/sand box.
 
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