Ping/Audio Test

M

Molly_S

New Member
I have a 1983 Boatel that I just sold and I have good affordable insurance through American National and didn't know about all the new insurance issues. The new owners can't get insurance without jumping through many hoops and want me to pay for whatever it takes to make it insurable for them. As many of you may know the older steel pontoons are now required to have an audio test/ping test done to the pontoons before it can be insured. I am just curious how many have had this done to their boats and what kind of experience you had with the whole process. It's a pricey test already and I am just curious how much more people have had to put into their steel pontoon to make it insurable. I would appreciate your thoughts and experience here. Also, does anyone know of an insurance company that will insure you currently with only a survey and not an audio test?
 
Doesn't seem like your problem that they can't find insurance...

Audio gauge test- We just had it done on our 88 aluminum monohull. Not cheap for sure but required by our insurance carrier at 30 years of age and then every 5 thereafter.

They can call John Sears, he's great. Don't delay, call today, he's a busy guy and was 6 weeks out when we scheduled in the spring.

928-660-0079
 
Just a thought...has anyone ever 'self insured'? Could be there umbrella policies out there that do not exclude boats.... :unsure:

Could you for instance put the boat as an asset in a NV corp, and that corp has self insured said boat? :unsure:

There's gotta be a boating attorney who'd noodle on this for $500/hr.....and a houseboat trip.....

;)
 
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Rainbowbridge said:
Just a thought...has anyone ever 'self insured'? Could be there umbrella policies out there that do not exclude boats.... :unsure:

Could you for instance put the boat as an asset in a NV corp, and that corp has self insured said boat? :unsure:

There's gotta be a boating attorney who'd noodle on this for $500/hr.....and a houseboat trip.....

;)
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Aramark (Wahweap Marina) must be on the policy as well so I'm guessing they wouldn't go for that.
I'm not Aramark nor an attorney. Just take a quick peek at my avatar. Ha
 
Hoskm01 said:
Doesn't seem like your problem that they can't find insurance...

Audio gauge test- We just had it done on our 88 aluminum monohull. Not cheap for sure but required by our insurance carrier at 30 years of age and then every 5 thereafter.

They can call John Sears, he's great. Don't delay, call today, he's a busy guy and was 6 weeks out when we scheduled in the spring.

928-660-0079
Click to expand...
Is John doing Ping tests now? He's a good guy I've used since 2017
 
Molly_S said:
I have a 1983 Boatel that I just sold and I have good affordable insurance through American National and didn't know about all the new insurance issues. The new owners can't get insurance without jumping through many hoops and want me to pay for whatever it takes to make it insurable for them. As many of you may know the older steel pontoons are now required to have an audio test/ping test done to the pontoons before it can be insured. I am just curious how many have had this done to their boats and what kind of experience you had with the whole process. It's a pricey test already and I am just curious how much more people have had to put into their steel pontoon to make it insurable. I would appreciate your thoughts and experience here. Also, does anyone know of an insurance company that will insure you currently with only a survey and not an audio test?
Click to expand...
I've owned and restored three steel Boatel's over the past 9 years. Not every carrier demands a ping test but most are moving that way. I've heard a couple of folks tell me recently that they had no problem getting insurance with just a thorough survey, one said they used Progressive and another State Farm. I find that hard to believe but you could try. I get to talk to lots of folks on this issue because I'm on the board at the Lake Powell Yacht Club in Page and our yard is filled with mostly old steel boats. Problem is the data shows that the old steel boats are causing the carries losses so they are on the lookout; The newest steel boats are 30 years old. I'm a huge Boatel fan but they are starting to disappear from the lake, every year there are a few less. If anyone has a boat they need to work on the Yacht Club has space, is open 24/7 and there are toilets and showers. You can stay on your boat there while you work on it, we are a group of active boating owners inside the storage yard, We are a non profit so our rates are less than retail. It's close in town, by Page High, that makes hardware runs easier.

When I was asked a few years ago by Warner/Volk there in Page for a ping test on an old aluminum boat I was shocked at the cost. Being a do-it-yourself'er to the extreme I asked the agent if I could, well, do it myself. The agent checked with the carrier and they said I could. Meters ranged from $200 to 2,000. In my business I use lots of professional grade meters and write reports so doing my own ping test don't seem out of the question and I wouldn't buy the ultimate professional quality meter to use it once. Hopefully they would accept it in the amateurs form I'd submit my report in, IDK, I went another way instead so I'll never know. The ping test was requested for full coverage, I took liability only.

In my opinion It is incumbent on old steel boat owners to be honest with starry eyed dreamers buying their first "cheap houseboat." To not fully disclose to them what you know about the insurance market wouldn't be right. As long as you did that it is their problem but you're a good seller for trying to help them out either way.

I have good luck on insurance with Karl Norgen in St George. He used to live in Page, used to office with Bull Dog Boat Repairs. He's a boater too, he brokers American national but that may not help your folks if they tried them already.
 
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Marina Bum said:
I've owned and restored three steel Boatel's over the past 9 years. Not every carrier demands a ping test but most are moving that way. I've heard a couple of folks tell me recently that they had no problem getting insurance with just a thorough survey, one said they used Progressive and another State Farm. I find that hard to believe but you could try. I get to talk to lots of folks on this issue because I'm on the board at the Lake Powell Yacht Club in Page and our yard is filled with mostly old steel boats. Problem is the data shows that the old steel boats are causing the carries losses so they are on the lookout; The newest steel boats are 30 years old. I'm a huge Boatel fan but they are starting to disappear from the lake, every year there are a few less. If anyone has a boat they need to work on the Yacht Club has space, is open 24/7 and there are toilets and showers. You can stay on your boat there while you work on it, we are a group of active boating owners inside the storage yard, We are a non profit so our rates are less than retail. It's close in town, by Page High, that makes hardware runs easier.

When I was asked a few years ago by Warner/Volk there in Page for a ping test on an old aluminum boat I was shocked at the cost. Being a do-it-yourself'er to the extreme I asked the agent if I could, well, do it myself. The agent checked with the carrier and they said I could. Meters ranged from $200 to 2,000. In my business I use lots of professional grade meters and write reports so doing my own ping test don't seem out of the question and I wouldn't buy the ultimate professional quality meter to use it once. Hopefully they would accept it in the amateurs form I'd submit my report in, IDK, I went another way instead so I'll never know. The ping test was requested for full coverage, I took liability only.

In my opinion It is incumbent on old steel boat owners to be honest with starry eyed dreamers buying their first "cheap houseboat." To not fully disclose to them what you know about the insurance market wouldn't be right. As long as you did that it is their problem but you're a good seller for trying to help them out either way.

I have good luck on insurance with Karl Norgen in St George. He used to live in Page, used to office with Bull Dog Boat Repairs. He's a boater too, he brokers American national but that may not help your folks if they tried them already.
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Ya, I was told the ping test has to be done by someone who is certified to do it. We are going to keep looking but it seems like it is an industry-wide issue. My current insurance is through Karl and he is great but he told me no one will take it on without the ping test due to the age of the boat. I guess I was just curious about what most people are running into with the ping tests on steel.
 
Molly_S said:
Ya, I was told the ping test has to be done by someone who is certified to do it. We are going to keep looking but it seems like it is an industry-wide issue. My current insurance is through Karl and he is great but he told me no one will take it on without the ping test due to the age of the boat. I guess I was just curious about what most people are running into with the ping tests on steel.
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The 42 foot Boatel was maybe the best small houseboat layout they ever made or that was ever made, it's worth saving! It's wider by a foot and they used the 52 foot model one piece fiberglass roof so your big foreword and aft deck are usually covered. The coveted ones had fiberglass floors instead of plywood over wood joists. 😍

Sorry to say so but it's mostly not good news about the ping tests and steel boats. it's not about how thick your steel is but how much it varies so it's open to interpretation by each carrier. We had a member at the Yacht Club who spent $3,000 having his old steel monohull pinged and his insurance company said it varried to much, no one else would insure him either. Page steel bid $10,000 to cut it up and scrap it but then said they didn't want to keep scrapping boats for the time being so he cut it up himself in our yard. It was a ton of work for him and I looked at the steel along the cuts, some made with abrasives and some with a torch. It all looked super clean to me, I've seen a lot worse inside Steel Pontoons I've cut open.

So you could go down the pinging path but you still may not get insured. Have you applied to multiple carriers? I'd try that first, then a ping test. If you fail
then you've got to choose a steel reshoe or aluminum pontoons. Even if you re-shoe you'll still probably need another ping test. I see more and more old boatels going down the aluminum pontoon path. It used to cost $90,000 but I've heard that it's being done now in the $30,000 range. Someone found a line to have large aluminum pontoons made at affordable prices apparently. In the $30,000 range puts it inline with the cost of a good steel re-shoe job. If it comes to that message me and I'll connect you to the two folks who've told me about that and where to go,

Best of Luck!
 
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The 42' was the bomb, it fit our budget, moving and anchoring was no issue,
This one looks nice.

Used 1987 Boatel 42' Houseboat, 86040 Page - Boat Trader

Check out this Used 1987 Boatel 42' Houseboat for sale in Page, AZ 86040. View this Houseboats and other Power boats on boattrader.com
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