Is Aramark trying to.....

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Ryan said:
It would be silly for you to turn a houseboat away. Wether you salvage or flip is up to you. I have no bones with that. In fact, I’ve been known to flip a boat or two myself.

I guess I’m just confused on the “doubling” cost argument. I was under the impression someone was accusing Aramark of doing that when now the concern is with the NPS and entrance fees. Two completely separate issues.
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I'm not the one that brought up the doubling of the entrance fees. Just commented on it. It's called inflation as far as I am concerned. Part of the system. Nothing can be done about it. I pay the fees every year and LP fees haven't increased that much. As the original entrance fee post said, some of them have doubled in the western region. I know the Golden Pass for LP has jumped way up, but others have not seemed that bad.
Seems this whole topic can get touchy. At no point did I ever mean for this topic to get heated in debate. It's obvious people have various views on the NPS and Aramark. It's obvious that people get passionate about the houseboat ownership. The truth is, the storage rate hike from Aramark is sparking many people to pull away from the houseboats.
Very sad I think.
 
Dave I. said:
I'm not the one that brought up the doubling of the entrance fees. Just commented on it. It's called inflation as far as I am concerned. Part of the system. Nothing can be done about it. I pay the fees every year and LP fees haven't increased that much. As the original entrance fee post said, some of them have doubled in the western region. I know the Golden Pass for LP has jumped way up, but others have not seemed that bad.
Seems this whole topic can get touchy. At no point did I ever mean for this topic to get heated in debate. It's obvious people have various views on the NPS and Aramark. It's obvious that people get passionate about the houseboat ownership. The truth is, the storage rate hike from Aramark is sparking many people to pull away from the houseboats.
Very sad I think.
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You have made the $*(# hit the fan, get away from the fan.
 
botnb said:
Dave, I am also interested in the houseboat exodus. I would like to see what is being on the market or plans to ditch.
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I would be happy to let you know the ones I know for sure are for sale. I will need your e-mail and I can send you the information.
 
Ryan, at no time did I state Aramark has doubled pricing, I stated price control has been taken away locally and they have no input any more, at all. I did state the same thing the paper did about the most popular parks in the west doubling there entrance fee's, a 14 day pass was $25 at powell, it will be $50 next year. We have been told that we can buy our boat passes for the $50 charge for next year before new years but they will be going up also, the lady did not know what they were going to. I stated that NPS is using the same strategy as Aramark in their pricing with using some facilities popularity to pay for losses elsewhere, or I inferred that. but then again who really cares, when it comes to boating you pay the fee and enjoy. so take a chill pill and relax by the water
 
Dave, this is an interesting topic, thanks for posting it. I think the raised fees and mussels are a double whammy that are hitting the ownership of old boats pretty hard. If faced with the cost of say replacing motors and fixing pontoons on an old boat, I could easily see reaching the decision to just give it away. I am not sure of all the regs, but it also seems likes its harder and more costly to pull your boat and do DIY work at the lake. The ever changing and powerful baby boomer demographics are probably at play here too.
 
LP1 said:
Dave, this is an interesting topic, thanks for posting it. I think the raised fees and mussels are a double whammy that are hitting the ownership of old boats pretty hard. If faced with the cost of say replacing motors and fixing pontoons on an old boat, I could easily see reaching the decision to just give it away. I am not sure of all the regs, but it also seems likes its harder and more costly to pull your boat and do DIY work at the lake. The ever changing and powerful baby boomer demographics are probably at play here too.
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Yes LP1, the demographics are changing. Mussels are of big concerns with all the boat owners I talk to, There are many factors into these people looking to just getting away from the houseboat aspect of Lake Powell. Here are the main ones I hear: Cost is the big one and the price hike with the "On Lake" storage is always a main topic. Mussels and maintenance are always talked about. One boat was the issue of cost and ALL but one partner wants to walk away because of the inner bickering, Another boat hasn't been used in 2 years and was listing the last time they were on it. They assume it's still floating because they haven't heard from the NPS about bottom retrieval. So, as many may see everyone that has talked to me about disposing of their boat has a different reasons.
And the thing about DIY at the lake is that boat owners are VERY limited as to what they can do on the "big 3" business' here at the north end of the lake. I have offered to people that want to "renovate" these older boat a rental spot as long as they can get them here. I have found someone that has a truck and trailer who is willing to do the transport. I would rather see one get renovated than destroyed.
I am checking into the regulations as to transporting the houseboats and once the boat leaves the lake, the only thing is the mussel decontamination. I am currently seeking to get that certification. other than that, NPS doesn't care where the boat goes once it leaves the park. Then it's just DOT regs because of the size.
I have also been hit hard with the same question from MANY houseboat owners. Do you know anyone who wants to buy into a houseboat? I haven't taken names and numbers but if people are interested, Let me know and I can give them your name next time someone asks.
 
LP1 -- I think you have hit it correctly--- I believe the houseboats with little or no value are the older steel pontoon boats. -- there life span has been reached. The cost to repair is super expensive, and unless they are completely replaced, many times you are just fighting them as they age. --- I had a lot of trouble several years ago getting ride of a 1986 steel houseboat --- eventually sold it for less than the cost of the two motors I put on the year before. I was about ready to look into salvage.
Can they be fixed --- yes -- is it worth it --- maybe not. I do not think the aluminum boats are having near as much problem selling ( as long as priced correctly) There are still buyers for them.
 
You are right davew. Everyone that I have heard from has the 70's & 80's steel pontoon houseboats. Not one aluminum has called. Was also informed that the big business outside the lake at Bullfrog is telling people that these older boats are worth about $3000 if everything is working. I personally think that is low, but... The true question people are asking is, are they worth it anymore. both the cost and the headaches.
 
botnb said:
Thanks for providing that service , Dave. My email --- bchapiewsky@yahoo.com . I have bought and sold 7 older boats and am nosey... lol
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My wife and I actually have several smaller run-a-bouts that we are fixing up for re-sale. Trust me when I say it's a labor of love. Currently working on a 16' tri-hull and a 20' pontoon,
Hoping to have 5-6 boats ready for spring. :)
 
This is a very interesting topic. As far as the slip and morning prices go, I think they are high with these latest increases, but they are competitive with many marinas, especially when you consider the logistical challenges with materials and available labor that Lake Powell demands. As far as condition of the facilities I think you have to balance the aging portions with some of the new improvements, again they seem to be in the ballpark with other facilities. You also need to consider that Aramark went several years with no increases prior to the 2016 bump.

Aging houseboats can be a real challenge, especially with multi-owners boats. We were part of the ownership on an older but very fun boat that need some repairs. We were having trouble finding anyone in the Bullfrog area that would even pull her. A couple of us owners felt it might be time to scrap her just because we could not find reasonable people to handle the hauling and repairs. I found a salvage company out of Salt Lake that said they would come down to Bullfrog to scrap her but said it would cost between $7,000 and $8,000. Plus we still would of had to have someone come up from Page to pull her and get her to a yard, another $2800. So we would have had to get money out of the sale of motors, generator, refrigerators, etc just to try to avoid out of pocket expense (not to mention the hassle of trying to remove, store, and try to sell the items). It was a tough situation. The group couldn’t agree to the plan so we moved on to a different boat, after being involved in that boat for over 25 years.
 
Randy Helzer said:
This is a very interesting topic. As far as the slip and morning prices go, I think they are high with these latest increases, but they are competitive with many marinas, especially when you consider the logistical challenges with materials and available labor that Lake Powell demands. As far as condition of the facilities I think you have to balance the aging portions with some of the new improvements, again they seem to be in the ballpark with other facilities. You also need to consider that Aramark went several years with no increases prior to the 2016 bump.

Aging houseboats can be a real challenge, especially with multi-owners boats. We were part of the ownership on an older but very fun boat that need some repairs. We were having trouble finding anyone in the Bullfrog area that would even pull her. A couple of us owners felt it might be time to scrap her just because we could not find reasonable people to handle the hauling and repairs. I found a salvage company out of Salt Lake that said they would come down to Bullfrog to scrap her but said it would cost between $7,000 and $8,000. Plus we still would of had to have someone come up from Page to pull her and get her to a yard, another $2800. So we would have had to get money out of the sale of motors, generator, refrigerators, etc just to try to avoid out of pocket expense (not to mention the hassle of trying to remove, store, and try to sell the items). It was a tough situation. The group couldn’t agree to the plan so we moved on to a different boat, after being involved in that boat for over 25 years.
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Did you walk away from your share? Give it back to the group? Sell it at a steep discount? If you walked away from it, what happened when the annual maintenance fees came due?
 
We sold it back to the group for $1. This was after a long, long struggle to try to find an alternative solution.

This is why multi-share groups can be challenging. Most of the owners weren’t having to deal with the struggles that the other owner and I were having to deal with so they couldn’t fathom that scrapping was the best alternative. It was very hard to walk away.
 
I have found someone out of GJ that can and will pull these older houseboats and pull them to Hanksville, for $1500. And what I have been telling people is that I will part them out and split the profits with the group. It wouldn't be much but at least they just don't have to take $1 for it.
So, to scrap that older boat Randy, you were looking at a minimum of $9800 just to get rid of it. Here, I tell people if they get it here, pay the transport of $1500 and then they also get a commission for parts sold off it. It's not a get rich scheme as I hope everyone is finally starting to see.
 
$1500 isn't terrible for the transport. I believe Offshore charges over $800 for the launch and retrieve of our boat, and that is only towing it 12 miles.
 
Ryan said:
$1500 isn't terrible for the transport. I believe Offshore charges over $800 for the launch and retrieve of our boat, and that is only towing it 12 miles.
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Not to mention the blocking and unblocking of the boat. That's another $200 I believe.
 
Does the $1500 include loading, hauling, permits, pilot car, blocking, yard rental, yard fees, dismantling, trash and debris disposal etc?
 
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