Inflows and Outflows – The Different Patterns of Good and Bad Years
- Thread starter JFRCalifornia
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nzaugg
Escalante-Class Member
Hoover Dam's power turbines have a nameplate capacity about 50% higher than Glen Canyon's. It also has lower line losses due to proximity to load. Hoover Dam power generation will always be more important than Glen Canyon power generation (unless you are a member of a cooperative relying on Glen Canyon's power).
This ignores the fate of the Salton Sea if flows are reduced further to agriculture in that area (if conservation and recycling goes up that means more evaporative losses and less groundwater recharge in proportion - how will those play out against what is needed to sustain the Salton Sea?).
With the costs of remediation or cleaning up the blowing salt and pollution probably running into the billions of $ this will not be something that can be glossed over again (they already did it once).
airford1
Well-Known Member
Build railways and make the area waste disposal pit for California
BillG
Active Member
JFR, have you ever seen any follow-the-money analysis on the Colorado River? Electricity and water. A couple of thoughts:
- the elephant in the room is alfalfa, especially flood-irrigated alfalfa. Maybe a tax could be used to cut the waste.
- I calculated that a 15 acre solar farm next to GCD could provide the energy to pump up the water during the day (from a small dam below). No more "dead pool". This does nothing for water users, but solves one of the stakeholder's problems.
- the elephant in the room is alfalfa, especially flood-irrigated alfalfa. Maybe a tax could be used to cut the waste.
- I calculated that a 15 acre solar farm next to GCD could provide the energy to pump up the water during the day (from a small dam below). No more "dead pool". This does nothing for water users, but solves one of the stakeholder's problems.
Trashing the planet even more is a great response to what humans have already accomplished.
Instead they could instead actually clean up the Salton Sea enough that it could provide fish, habitat for birds along with recreation for everyone. Even if it takes 100 years to do it that would be a much better end result as compared to yet another toxic waste site.
airford1
Well-Known Member
Nobody wants it in their backyard, yet we still have to deal with it.Trashing the planet even more is a great response to what humans have already accomplished.
Instead they could instead actually clean up the Salton Sea enough that it could provide fish, habitat for birds along with recreation for everyone. Even if it takes 100 years to do it that would be a much better end result as compared to yet another toxic waste site.
Dorado
Escalante-Class Member
The Salton Sink would be a terrible place for a waste dump. Even though the current Salton Sea was created by a blow out in a man-made canal, it has filled in the past many times naturally, and will again when we get a super-sized atmospheric river train! Water and toxic waste don't do well together...
airford1
Well-Known Member
Like I said NOBODY wants to deal with these things. Talk has got us nowhere.
RobertGosselin
Well-Known Member
I just spent 4 days on the east shore of the Salton Sea. The lake has receded about 100 ft at the Niland Marina from where it was on last years visit. There are no trespassing signs there and at Bombay Beach where they have dug up and furrowed a part of each of the beaches for toxicity testing. The two Sonny Bono Bird Sanctuaries looked as populated as ever.Trashing the planet even more is a great response to what humans have already accomplished.
Instead they could instead actually clean up the Salton Sea enough that it could provide fish, habitat for birds along with recreation for everyone. Even if it takes 100 years to do it that would be a much better end result as compared to yet another toxic waste site.
It would be a shame if it were allowed to deteriorate any further. There are proposals to bring salt water from the Pacific or the Gulf of California to recharge it. Since it is below sea level there would not be a huge pumping cost especially from the Gulf since the terrain between the two is essentially flat. It would be an expensive project nonetheless but could be an economic boom for the area and return it to its heyday years when thousands of people launched boats daily on hundreds of ramps.
I am in favor of things that actually improve it and don't make it worse. Letting sea water in to raise the level is only a temporary fix but to me the best approaches would take the sea water, desalinate it and then use that water to raise the level. Eventually what I would want to do is use the plentiful sun to do enough solar energy to desalt the Salton Sea even more and return that salt to the ocean. It would not have to be a huge amount each year but all done to offset what is flowing in and what leaches up from existing. Like I said before if it takes 100 years it is still better than the plans to either abandon it or to keep it minimal and that makes no sense to leave it a stinking mess that few people want to be around. Improve it and you've then got a real positive asset instead of a liability.
Bill Sampson
Escalante-Class Member
The Salton Sea has been ignored for years.
I don't agree with this. Many people have tried to advocate for water, restoration and other efforts but they have largely been overrun by the big water interests that have been taking the water from "that area" for many years. By "that area" I mean the general situation in the whole dry southwest where water has been moved from one place to another with little planning or consequences for the parties who've done the damage. Some of the diversions were done long ago and some have been tried to be remedied with continued problems. Other diversions are more recent and should never have been allowed and to the extent they are hurting people who were not being harmed before I consider them crimes.
For the Salton Sea If the agreement to transfer water to the cities in exchange for some nebulous water (which has never appeared) had never been made the situation would be much different. Until they fix this sort of problem the lake will continue to fall and the damage and costs will continue to increase.
In the meantime restoration and mitigation efforts are being done, but have not solved the whole problem (which would be hard, it's a big area). It has not been ignored, but it has certainly not had enough funding considering what the cost of failure would be (billions).
Getting pollution inflows cleaned up would be a big help. Desalinating during such a clean up would likely be a big gain for less cost (compared to desalinating the Salton Sea water itself) since it is fairly fresh water to begin with.
Yes the Salton sea has been ignored . The only money it gets is grants to study solutions, which has been going on for decades. Then the big Sonny Bono fiasco followed by his wife's fiasco. Right now they are lobbying for another 350 million to fix salton sea, but it's another study.
Where do you get the idea that Salton sea is fairly fresh water????? It's 50 percent salter than the Pacific Ocean. Then add in the raw sewage from Mexico that comes thorough the Alamo and New Rivers. It's FAR from fairly fresh water!!!!
They have spent billions to date "STUDYING" possible ways to "fix" Salton sea. All it has been is another "cash cow" for California and Federal,with no results for the sea itself!!
So Yes, it has been ignored!!!
Where do you get the idea that Salton sea is fairly fresh water????? It's 50 percent salter than the Pacific Ocean. Then add in the raw sewage from Mexico that comes thorough the Alamo and New Rivers. It's FAR from fairly fresh water!!!!
They have spent billions to date "STUDYING" possible ways to "fix" Salton sea. All it has been is another "cash cow" for California and Federal,with no results for the sea itself!!
So Yes, it has been ignored!!!
Bill Sampson
Escalante-Class Member
The reason I feel it has been ignored is that I first went there in 1966 and the water condition was poor then. I recently went back, and it seemed the area was in a time warp. It's more of a ghost town than ever, and it looks the same to me now as it did in 1966.
I live here. I grew up here. I fallow it while shaking my head. There is one project on the south end to basically test out how they can separate the sea and let one part dry out,,,, stupid idea!!! Again millions of dollars spent with no actual "fix" to the sea!!!
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And that is the exact truth!!!
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"This massive project, called the "Species Conservation Habitat Project" or SCH, covers 4,100 acres. It's the state's first large scale project here, costing $206.5 million."
kesq.com
note the date of this and then note how long it takes to get projects of this size funded and going, that's not peanuts and it also isn't ignoring...
Progress made on state Salton Sea project as water conservation mandate poses new troubles - KESQ
A new mandate on water conservation could have some major impacts on the already struggling Salton Sea.
kesq.com
note the date of this and then note how long it takes to get projects of this size funded and going, that's not peanuts and it also isn't ignoring...
"This massive project, called the "Species Conservation Habitat Project" or SCH, covers 4,100 acres. It's the state's first large scale project here, costing $206.5 million."
Progress made on state Salton Sea project as water conservation mandate poses new troubles - KESQ
A new mandate on water conservation could have some major impacts on the already struggling Salton Sea.
note the date of this and then note how long it takes to get projects of this size funded and going, that's not peanuts and it also isn't ignoring...
And that's the one I mentioned on the southern. My friend is a foreman for Kiewit doing that job. But again it will have nothing to do with the Salton Sea as a whole as being "fixed". Go on Salton Sea Authority and click on history. It will show you the timeliness of the Salton Sea and how much money wasted away.most of the money was for grants and habitat estuaries for ponds and such for the wildlife or for college studies. It's mostly ponds and wetland form on the shores of the sea and even miles inline. But nothing to "fix" the sea. Youll see how early the came up with the idea of diking and drying up the Sea and they still seem stuck on that idea some 50 years later. So yes, the Sea is being ignored.
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