I thought this was illegal?

Maverick5207

Well-Known Member
Isn't driving those anchors into the sandstone a no-no?
This was in Labyrinth Canyon last Friday
 

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Rivergoer

Well-Known Member
Pretty extensive discussion here:
 

Ryan

Well-Known Member
Have you sent the photo and inquiry to NPS? I would be interested in hearing their response.
 

Maverick5207

Well-Known Member
Have you sent the photo and inquiry to NPS? I would be interested in hearing their response.
I have not but I will.
There was another boat next to this one that was pinned with 4 ropes that was about 500 feet west of this one but I didn't get a pic of it.
How would I get the pic to NPS?
 
We were camping just around the corner to the northeast of Labyrinth Canyon over the weekend of September 19th. Two very large, nice houseboats were probably in the same locations you observed house boats in last Friday. One had a helicopter on its pad. Both were pinned. I suspect the two you observed may have been using the same holes/pins. I think the locations in Labyrinth are a favorite location for vendors to park these rigs for the owners. Nice location, out of the wind, no wake zone, shade in the evening, etc.
 

Kevin G

Active Member
The part I don't get - do you really take a boat that costs well in excess of $1M and park it on the rocks? Seriously? I can hear the crunching sounds just by looking at those photos.
 

bubba

Well-Known Member
My view on pin holes has changed. It is not pins that have some bothered, it is the pinholes, two different things, like dogs and dog poop.



I am on the lake a lot and my team includes a little grandson and he has probably filled in more pin holes than any other single person at Powell and possibly even more than everybody reading this combined.



With me being his most interested fan to his low scientific process of filling in the holes, this experience has indirectly exposed me to and educated me on seeing hundreds of filled holes over weeks and months and years. Part of his hobby is also finding old holes that he has filled in on prior trips, a true Easter egg hunt.



Folks, I have a big surprise for you... pins are ok just like dogs, pin holes are ok too, just like dog poop, just clean up after yourself.



Filling in a pin hole with sand is like picking up a pile of dog poop, once it is refilled the hole is gone, it is kinda no longer there, sure bacteria from the poo is present but the visual is gone. All happy.



No need for epoxy or concrete, that is silly, just refill each hole with dry sand, leave a bit of a crown, pour a solo cup of water above the slope, step on it and slide your flip flop across the top to blend flat and you are good.



There seems to be perfect spots to drill a hole including anywhere along the uphill side of a small sloping lip or ridge where rain water will flow or pool during a rain storm. The sand will naturally refill these holes during rain storms and bury the holes forever. Any hole that has gone under a rising lake and filled with lake mud is virtually impossible to see even after after the lake drops.



This little boy has taken hundreds of photos of before and after filled holes. He can lay a hoopla hoop around most of his cured holes and you probably cannot quickly find the near impossible to see prior hole. Take the hoopla hoop away and my money is on him.



Next time you are on the beach grab a bucket of sand and a pal of water and fill in a few holes. Sure you probably did not drill them, but you probably did not poop all over the beach either and were ok cleaning that up.



On a side not, A pin anchored boat with tight lines is massively safer in wind and this saves lives and reduces pressure on the rangers. Is it right, lots of things are not right starting with not wearing a mask. There are bigger things to focus on then something that is so easily fixed.



Listen in on channel 16 on a windy night, nobody is freaking out about dragging a pin. I know of only 1 pinned boat that every broke loose and had life threatening issues. Any boat with loose lines is looking for trouble, even a pinned boat.



By the way, when your boat blows sideways in a big storm and a bunch of guys from a pinned boat at the edge of the sand rescue your butt with flashlights and a drill and pins you will be grateful. Regardless of your current view on pins you will let them drill, you will plug their cord into your boat, you will thank them and you will be very grateful. You will be comforted with an ultimate secure feeling and you will be happy the guys in the pinned boat had zero wind issues on their boat during the same wind storm were available to help you.



The next morning after a big wind storm you may see rangers drifting at wakes less speed next to the shoreline, they are not looking for lost inflatables or pinned boats folks, they are looking for bodies.



On a closing thought, the pinned group has also relieved the beach parking densities. Put all those pinned boats on the same tiny sandy beach as non pinners and guess what - no room for you. Next time you see a pinned boat give that man a thumbs up for thinning out the crowd on the sand as well as being able to help others when things go bad.



Next time you see a pin hole, fill it to the tippy top with sand, pour some water on it and then flatten it out with your flip flop. If you want extra points take a broom and sweep the rock around it to dust the same color sand on the wet spot. It really is this easy - it’s a miracle.



Folks, pins are here to stay. As long as the holes are below high watermark it is probably a very very very fuzzy argument and one that will get very expensive very quick for the nps if appeals are filed at distant cities at federal level by the ticketed party. The Park Service does not have the man power or the budget or the desire to double down and have their rangers at expensive hotels at appeal court levels. At the end of the day the rangers probably don’t care about dog poop, fireworks or pins as much as they care about drunk drivers and keeping you safe. Any ranger that has issued a pin ticket and gets dragged in front of a high priced litigator will never want to relive that experience again, getting pounded into the ground and pounded deeper and deeper and deeper is not as much fun as driving the patrol boat with wind in your hair.



Just add sand - problem solved.
 

Peto

Well-Known Member
okay, now this is getting silly.... It's a hole in a rock. At some point people will not need to drill any new ones as long as people don't fill in the old ones.... Pick up your dogs poop but leave the holes alone so they can be reused...Simple.
 

Dworwood

Well-Known Member
The pins left in the rock bother me a lot, the holes not so much. I was going to stay out of this discussion but I can’t see the big issue with the holes in that climate. Big chunks of sandstone fall off by themselves and have done so for millions of years, are we effecting it with these holes, won’t know for hundreds of years and millions of dollars worth of studies. I have found old holes drilled when they were looking for uranium down near lake Powell. These are 4” holes, some still have the charge wire and probably the charge in them and I can’t see any other damage to the surrounding area. These were probably drilled at least 80 years ago. If they would not have had the wire down hole I would not have even noticed them.
 
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Evan

Member
The concept that holes drilled in Rock go away is total BS I have been in a slickrock cove In mountain sheep canyon where there are 10 to 20 holes visible. They are great as Umbrella holders but when you do this you’ll see that the hole is no longer inch and a quarter it is oval and will never be as small as it used to be. Getting larger over time with the water and abrasion. These holes are permanent scars inside of a national park akin to graffiti and other hair brain ideas on top of a national resource.

I happen to own a rock yard in which I screen and crush sandstone. Once you have drilled the stone the stone will never be the same. If a hole Is filled in with sand it is a rock filled in with sand it is not a rock that was never drilled.

The impetus for drilling holes into the rock is so that you can have a pristine cove with amazing views perfect for one houseboat. You don’t have to deal with the idiot neighbors the view is perfect etc. The downside is you’re permanently scaring the landscape. If you have a scar on your arm and you put a shirt on that covers it. Does that mean you no longer have a scar on your arm? No it means you cannot see the scar currently.

The lake goes up and down and the holes are visible and then not visible. A hole on the waters edge is exposed to wake boats and other abrasion. The idea that we should Drill Lake Powell is stupid!
 
Understand there are a total of12 Adonis’s that will be built this year. Don’t think pinning these boats is going away!
 
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