Scott
Active Member
Any luck with American Marine insurance?
HOUSEBOAT INSURANCE
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sphoppie
Active Member
Gentlemen,
I spoke with the CFO of American Marine Insurance yesterday to get a better understanding of the markets that can be offered for Steel Hull houseboats. Currently there is only one carrier that will write steel hulled houseboats with fractional ownership's and that is Markel. American Reliable is pulling out of the boat insurance business all together according to AMI. AMI is currently working with another carrier to take over all the business American Reliable was writing, but there is not a program in place yet. If you are a single owner of a steel hulled boat there is several carriers that will write it.
if you have any questions please shoot me an email or phone call I'd be happy to go over it with you.
Stevie Hopkins
520-235-6989
Stevie@tucins.com
I spoke with the CFO of American Marine Insurance yesterday to get a better understanding of the markets that can be offered for Steel Hull houseboats. Currently there is only one carrier that will write steel hulled houseboats with fractional ownership's and that is Markel. American Reliable is pulling out of the boat insurance business all together according to AMI. AMI is currently working with another carrier to take over all the business American Reliable was writing, but there is not a program in place yet. If you are a single owner of a steel hulled boat there is several carriers that will write it.
if you have any questions please shoot me an email or phone call I'd be happy to go over it with you.
Stevie Hopkins
520-235-6989
Stevie@tucins.com
lakepowellnut
Well-Known Member
All I can say is I had a share in a steel hull houseboat and after I got out, because of some of the owners, it sank!
My Kayot is 42' and is in dry storage during the winter months. I have tried Stevie -- he is working on it for me along with one other agent-- but I think they draw from the same source. I have a bad feeling about this.
I can get insurance if we launch and retrieve each time or if I rent a slip - but it cannot be stored on a buoy even if its for the season (6-7 months) -- which we have done for the last 20 years - - I will probably go with the slip option if the buoy option is out but it was nice being on a buoy -- Try to figure out what to do this year but the writing is on the wall -- I might keep my eyes open for a aluminium hulled boat and take the two three year old engines off the old and re-install--- or ---
Thanks for your reply -- much appreciated
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I can get insurance if we launch and retrieve each time or if I rent a slip - but it cannot be stored on a buoy even if its for the season (6-7 months) -- which we have done for the last 20 years - - I will probably go with the slip option if the buoy option is out but it was nice being on a buoy -- Try to figure out what to do this year but the writing is on the wall -- I might keep my eyes open for a aluminium hulled boat and take the two three year old engines off the old and re-install--- or ---
Thanks for your reply -- much appreciated
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This comment may not be relevant to this thread – houseboat insurance, but it is very relevant to older boat insurance; thus, some of you may find my comment of value.
A few years ago, when Geico took over the Boat U.S. Marine Insurance program, they significantly changed the coverages of their “Yacht” policy regarding older boats (defined as a hull that is more than 20 years old). Primarily, they changed how they define “depreciated value.” And the change significantly lowered the potential for a claim to be paid on the policy, but unless you read your policy every year, you probably didn’t know it changed. And the premium rate, of course, still went up.
Under the “old” policy, if I hit a rock in my over 20-year-old boat, the “Yacht” policy would pay for the repair less my deductible. Under the “new” policy, if I hit a rock in my over 20-year-old boat, the depreciated value is ZERO, and no insurance reimbursement will be made to me! NONE! Essentially, they now consider any claim that is not a ‘total loss’ depreciable, and any part of that claim for damage to a part that is over 20 years old is not covered as it is fully depreciated.
So, if I have a partial loss claim because I hit a rock and tear up my propeller and fiberglass, nothing is paid to me to repair the damage as the propeller and fiberglass are over 20 years old. I could easily see a +$20,000 repair to my hull and running gear if I hit something, and this would NOT be a covered claim.
But, if I have a “total loss,” the “agreed value” as noted on my policy will be paid.
In a nutshell, I have great coverage if my boat sinks, but I have little to no coverage for a partial loss, which is far more likely to occur.
I do not know if houseboat insurance is similar, but for those of you with “old” boats of any type, it is worth looking at your policy to see how depreciation is handled so you are not surprised with a big dollar bill when something happens in the future. I did check with other insurance carriers and they handle depreciation the same way as the Geico Boat US policy I’ve described. It seems the old Boat US program was kind to old boats, but those days are gone and definitely increases the potential out of pocket risk of owning an "old" boat.
A few years ago, when Geico took over the Boat U.S. Marine Insurance program, they significantly changed the coverages of their “Yacht” policy regarding older boats (defined as a hull that is more than 20 years old). Primarily, they changed how they define “depreciated value.” And the change significantly lowered the potential for a claim to be paid on the policy, but unless you read your policy every year, you probably didn’t know it changed. And the premium rate, of course, still went up.
Under the “old” policy, if I hit a rock in my over 20-year-old boat, the “Yacht” policy would pay for the repair less my deductible. Under the “new” policy, if I hit a rock in my over 20-year-old boat, the depreciated value is ZERO, and no insurance reimbursement will be made to me! NONE! Essentially, they now consider any claim that is not a ‘total loss’ depreciable, and any part of that claim for damage to a part that is over 20 years old is not covered as it is fully depreciated.
So, if I have a partial loss claim because I hit a rock and tear up my propeller and fiberglass, nothing is paid to me to repair the damage as the propeller and fiberglass are over 20 years old. I could easily see a +$20,000 repair to my hull and running gear if I hit something, and this would NOT be a covered claim.
But, if I have a “total loss,” the “agreed value” as noted on my policy will be paid.
In a nutshell, I have great coverage if my boat sinks, but I have little to no coverage for a partial loss, which is far more likely to occur.
I do not know if houseboat insurance is similar, but for those of you with “old” boats of any type, it is worth looking at your policy to see how depreciation is handled so you are not surprised with a big dollar bill when something happens in the future. I did check with other insurance carriers and they handle depreciation the same way as the Geico Boat US policy I’ve described. It seems the old Boat US program was kind to old boats, but those days are gone and definitely increases the potential out of pocket risk of owning an "old" boat.
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Ryan
Keeper of San Juan Secrets
I'll go back on what I posted earlier about not going into details.
When our group had a total loss, Markel took over 4 months to pay out. I remember one of the tactics was that they wanted to have 3 repair quotes on the boat - they didn't care that there isn't a SINGLE facility within a couple hundred of miles that could or would do the repairs. But of course they wouldn't pay for transport.
Then when they finally did pay, they exercised their "right" to not claim the remains of the boat. That actually worked out ok as I was able to sell the boat to someone who could rebuild themselves, but I am not sure you would be that lucky with a steel hulled boat.
The good thing I will say is that I don't remember having any difficulty with them paying for the on-water salvage operation. I don't think I ever saw a bill from Aramark or NPS.
When our group had a total loss, Markel took over 4 months to pay out. I remember one of the tactics was that they wanted to have 3 repair quotes on the boat - they didn't care that there isn't a SINGLE facility within a couple hundred of miles that could or would do the repairs. But of course they wouldn't pay for transport.
Then when they finally did pay, they exercised their "right" to not claim the remains of the boat. That actually worked out ok as I was able to sell the boat to someone who could rebuild themselves, but I am not sure you would be that lucky with a steel hulled boat.
The good thing I will say is that I don't remember having any difficulty with them paying for the on-water salvage operation. I don't think I ever saw a bill from Aramark or NPS.
Continuing the insurance saga - I have part ownership in a 1990 Aluminium hull boat on buoy at lake powell (currently at offshore, will have survey this weekend). Got notice that we are being dropped by Warner Gleave. Went the rounds with Merkel only to be told that they won't insure on a buoy. any recommendations?
I thought that they were only concerned with steel hulled boats ? Which is what I have -- Still working to secure insurance myself -- This is a big problem -- Merkel will issue insurance for my HB at a slip -- The problem is that there are few if any slips left at Bullfrog -- I have not checked Halls
I am a single owner ---
I am a single owner ---
I just talked to American Marine (Agent for Markel) as our policy is up for renewal soon, and they said that they were still insuring:
1) Fractional owner boats
2) Steel hull
3) On buoy (for a premium) American Marine called to correct the previous information. They will not insure on the buoy.
info@AmericanMarineInsurance.com
Ian indicated that if you don't get a response, you could use his direct email ian@AmericanMarineInsurance.com (he approved my publishing on the board)
As we have an older boat I am mostly concerned with the NPS and Aramark requirements. It would really be disappointing to get nothing for the boat (risk I would take), but not being able to comply with NPS and Aramark would make the HB a total no-go - I'm not willing to risk having to pay for environmental and/or recovery costs out of pocket.
Good Luck
1) Fractional owner boats
2) Steel hull
3
info@AmericanMarineInsurance.com
Ian indicated that if you don't get a response, you could use his direct email ian@AmericanMarineInsurance.com (he approved my publishing on the board)
As we have an older boat I am mostly concerned with the NPS and Aramark requirements. It would really be disappointing to get nothing for the boat (risk I would take), but not being able to comply with NPS and Aramark would make the HB a total no-go - I'm not willing to risk having to pay for environmental and/or recovery costs out of pocket.
Good Luck
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My Understanding is Markel will not insure on a buoy - but American Marine has other companies that they can cover a steel hull HB on a buoy - I'm gong through the process right now - (getting an updated survey etc..) Warner Gleave was not able to help with my situation any longer other than to offer Markel on a slip
What I don't understand is why any insurance company will insure if you are in a slip, but not if you are on the buoy. It seems to me that the risk of sinking is about the same in either spot, but the risk from fire, which can easily spread from boat to boat in the slips is greater?
My agent just confirmed with Merkel, they will NOT insure in a buoy.
My only shot on why is more eyes are around at a slip.
In some instances, even a buoy may be better. My BIL had a claim on their houseboat in a slip because a storm came in and flooded the back of the boat (new engines and generator). On a buoy, the boat would have pointed into the wind and completely avoided the mess.
My only shot on why is more eyes are around at a slip.
In some instances, even a buoy may be better. My BIL had a claim on their houseboat in a slip because a storm came in and flooded the back of the boat (new engines and generator). On a buoy, the boat would have pointed into the wind and completely avoided the mess.
Boat US Insurance used to report their claims and payout amounts every year. By far, the majority of claims and the majority of payouts were "water encroachment" - i.e. sinking or swamped boats. (if I recall, the 2nd most claims were fire caused by 12v electrical shorts, but I could be wrong) I know for a fact that 4 boats (and I'm sure many more I'm not personally aware of) that had been taking on water in their slips at APM over the last few years were saved when someone saw and reported the problem and the boats were able to be floated before entirely sinking. I'm guessing this happens more than we all know at the marinas.
APM has security personnel who walk the docks daily looking for such problems. Boats on a buoy, unfortunately, don't have that kind of visual traffic. Further, even a relatively small water leak on a buoy moored boat can turn catastrophic if the batteries go dead and the bilge pumps stop doing their job. Just going back to business basics, you know the insurance companies would not be turning away the business if they were making money on this market segment. I'm sure if we could see the numbers behind their decision to move from this market segment, it would make sense, at least financially.
As the owner of a 40-year-old boat, as I've previously written, technically I have insurance, but practically, anything on my boat older than 20 years is specifically "not" covered - except in a total loss claim. I know, makes no sense. It sounds like I'm one step away from where many of you find yourself today with no access to any insurance, not even the NPS required liability coverage.
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There is a weird clause in the moorage agreement that says insurance must cover vessel - so it's not just the liability indemnity and pollution. Item (c) in the insurance section.
If not for that I'd go the path you did
Just to be clear, I have "full coverage" per my policy declarations page. But when you read the small print, it states that anything on the boat older than 20 years is considered fully depreciated and not covered except in a total loss. The coverage I have now is exactly as it has been for as long as I've owned the boat, the small print just changed to exclude a few things, like everything older than 20 years! How I view it to ease my mind is I'm paying for total loss coverage, but do not have any partial loss coverage, which is far more likely to occur than a total loss.
I agree that unless there is a total loss -- I really have no coverage-- my 42' 1978 Kayot - fully re-powered three years ago has a value of only $22K - The boat is well maintained and worth loads more to me for the the enjoyment - I have the insurance for the liability and environmental clauses
Agree with Pegasus -- it is all about risk for the insurance companies
Agree with Pegasus -- it is all about risk for the insurance companies
Thanks For the clarification. Maybe it will help me find an approach
I did see a in one bjog someone was going to try Surplus Line insurance (Lloyds of London). Haven’t gotten any further as our agent thinks he may be able to get insurance through Geico since we have 3 or fewer owners. Fingers crossed
Ted Beyrodt
Member
We are having same problem with our 56' Kayot. Markel won't cover. Still looking for coverage.
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