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Great. Introducing the next generation wake boat. 8 foot waves.

Maverick5207

Well-Known Member

As much as I dislike government intervention, I think some rules and regs should be implemented on Lake Powell should boats like this be manufactured.
I can't imagine what the main channel between the dam and Antelope Canyon would be like if a few of these were free to roam the area. It would be unnavigable to a fishing boat.
Your thoughts?
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
I agree with you on the hazard such a boat would create, but tough to regulate. Maybe restricted to a particular area, say, Last Chance? Lots of large yachts on the lake that can throw 6 footers, but at least there is the go slow incentive for them to get about 1 mpg rather than about 0.3 mpg at fast displacement speeds.
 

Havalina

Well-Known Member
I think that everyone needs one And they all need to go to powell from May until September. Maybe Ryan will be the first to get one on the water at Powell. Better yet they need to do tours to the rainbow bridge with a couple of them. I can barely keep my enthusiasm contained.
 

Boudreaux

Well-Known Member
As annoying as last year’s plethora of wake boats was, we may, someday, look back on it as the “good old days” before these monsters proliferated.
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Proliferated at $700k per? Probably not much to worry about. And, as is the looming challenge for EV's, charging stations and upgrades to distribution systems are very expensive. Maybe add generators and charging stations to the comfort stations. 😀
 

Maverick5207

Well-Known Member
I'm wondering about the wakes around the marinas? Waves that size would cause havoc in the marinas I would think.
What about a fishing boat that is beached and one of the monsters came by and swamped the boat? Who would be responsible for the damage? Wouldn't they be liable for damage from their wake?
Some things to ponder......
 

210 FSH

Well-Known Member
Let’s have the old destroyer of utopian dreams have a word .... physical law or simply put, reality.

The article claims twin 300 hp electric motors for a total of 600 hp. I’m going to go conservative here and use a engineering factor of .6. That’s 268,200 watts or 268.2 KW‘s per hour, that’s using a duty cycle of 60%, or 268.2 KWh‘s, per hour. The article also claims a run time of 6-8 hours with a 2 hour recharge with “an industrial charger”.

So let’s use the more conservative number of 6 hours run time. That’s 1,609,200 watts to recharge the battery which the article claims is a Mega watt hour battery... so right there it illustrates that the actual run time is much less than 60%. I’ll spare you the math unless someone wants it, it works out to a 40% duty cycle, and Lithium batteries can only be discharged about 80% without damage, which works out to 4.47 hours of use at a 40% duty cycle. That works out to 800 KWh’s consumed in 4.47 hours. Fun fact, this figure does not include losses, ballast pumps, stereo, lighting, control systems etc...

A $600,000 boat that has a 40% duty cycle.... 🤷🏼‍♂️ there’s an ass for every seat.

Lets talk charging. To replace 800 KWh’s in 4.47 hours you are indeed going to need an INDUSTRIAL charger, one that is capable of at least 500 KW‘s or .5 MW’s of power probably greater than that to keep from frying the charger, but we will just go with .5 MW’s for two hours to restore 800kwhs. It’s an understatement to say this is a tremendous amount of energy. Again I’m not including the 15% losses associated with battery charging and discharging. Toss in a powe factor of .5 for the battery charger and it will require a 1 MVA transformer bank at a minimum, perhaps larger in the desert heat.

First of all where is that power going to come from? Are you going to have a 1MW diesel powered generator to recharge your “zero” emissions boat? Or perhaps a PV solar array of X amount of acres and at least a 5MWh LiFe battery.

Now let’s talk about recharging cost. No utility is going to provide that much demand without demand charges, or tiered charges..not to mention the cost to set up a mini substation to provide the power, but alas I digress. A fair charge would be about 40 cents per kWh, and there is 800kwhs. That works out to $320 per charge, without grid charges, taxes etc... That’s in the ball park of 70 gallons of 91 octane fuel at $5 a gallon ($350) which is pretty close to what the fuel docks charge.

So we have a 600 hp boat with at least 15-20 tons of a LiFe battery that required minerals to be mined in Africa and shipped to the US, assuming the battery would be made here, and all of the energy it takes to make a utility sized battery who‘s processes result in tons of toxic waste. Not to mention the untold number of sub Saharan African youths who will never see their 18th birthday because they are the ones mining the lithium, cobalt etc..with their bare hands and will be dead due to heavy metal poisoning.

And this is being done to do what? Make a toy for some very wealthy playboys / playgirls who are trying to say their boat is zero emissions? Please.

Utopian dreams with a dystopian reality.

I really would be very surprised to see something like this at Lake Powell.
 
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Havalina

Well-Known Member
I don’t care about the propulsion, I more than a little concerned about a gas powered one. The whole crowd funding the surf boats will make it possible for several to be on Powell. I seriously doubt that I will get it, but I have applied to be one of the at large members of the DWR board.
If I do get it my first priority will be getting something done to limit or remove the surf boats on some of Utahs waters or at least limiting wave size or ballast tank size. I heard that Pineview, Mantua, and Strawberry might be doing an erosion study. I will say that the squeky wheel gets the grease. Please feel free to call the DWR or your state legislators and give them an ear full, if you don’t like the surf boats.
 

Boatingtopgun

Active Member
Thank you Havalina. I would love the good old days with houseboats and ski boats. I kno, I know all of the jet ski'ers will be on me.
 

210 FSH

Well-Known Member
And when I was a young guy of 8 years, the ski boats used to piss my Dad off something fierce... they always had to come by where we were anchored fishing when they had the whole lake to fish on... moral of that story is a geek is a geek..... whether their driving a car or a boat. It’s just plain lack of courtesy.

Fast forward to today, there is one or two wake boats on the lake that I go to, and a plethora of pontoon boats towing their kids around. I don’t necessarily have an issue with the wake boats but they do make large waves. It’s mainly youngsters in their early 20’s, they make use of the whole lake and only come by once in a while. The pontoon boats towing their kids? They sit there and make laps not very far from where I’d be sitting. So there you go, an anomaly, the young kids with their parents $150K wake boat are using the whole lake and I’d like to think being respectful, while the pontoon boaters are sitting their making circles right near me.
 

Maverick5207

Well-Known Member
What would you need to tow it? 30 tons is a little beyond the normal F350 isn't it?
After some thought, I'm thinking the boat will not be any where near that weight so will be towable by a normal truck. It will have huge ballast tanks much like the current line of wake boats.
 

Bill Sampson

Well-Known Member
I don’t care about the propulsion, I more than a little concerned about a gas powered one. The whole crowd funding the surf boats will make it possible for several to be on Powell. I seriously doubt that I will get it, but I have applied to be one of the at large members of the DWR board.
If I do get it my first priority will be getting something done to limit or remove the surf boats on some of Utahs waters or at least limiting wave size or ballast tank size. I heard that Pineview, Mantua, and Strawberry might be doing an erosion study. I will say that the squeky wheel gets the grease. Please feel free to call the DWR or your state legislators and give them an ear full, if you don’t like the surf boats.
I had not thought about shore erosion. Good point.
 

bubba

Well-Known Member
OMG! - I’m a hypocrite - and i love it...

Wow, so the engineer in me has me wide eyed and grinning big. After a full read and a few more searches for a deeper dive I am all in. But then the reality of what this means at Powell sunk in... but only for a moment. There are hints that the biggest concern is GC followed by wake size at range may be different than perceived.

At $600k it has a limited market, but at $600k it also very attractive to that same market, the black card ego friendly. At the end of the day, the price will not provide any barrier to entry at powell, just too many wealthy ego’s in close proximity. The first arrival will ignite a surge, just like with ocean center consoles with triples and quads, and twin drive tri-toons, and even mega million dollar pin anchored boats. The only limit at Powell is charging it, and that is a small hurdle for any well heeled owner.

This thing is coming... larger wakes. If this hits production slots, you will see definitely see it at Powell.

There is so much to be exited about with this thing, first it is electric - this means massive massive torque and near zero second plaid style hole shots. The motor drive will probably evolve into an azipod style with multi axis directional thrust and with electrics you can swing very very large efficient diameter blades that move a lot of water - think catapult propelled bull dozer. The benefit of a wake generating boat is more ballast the better, so adding heavier batteries for longer ranges (hours & miles) is a positive byproduct.

I need to look into the self canceling hydro dynamics of a barrel wave vrs a rolling wake. It is possible that this thing has a sweet spot where the lead and tail edge energies catch up to each other and collide and that is a game changer. The secret is probably linked to the tip curl speed and re-entry type dynamics. Large ships are designed with a sweet spot where the wake frequency creates a mini pressure delta at the stern that generates a free small push against the rear hull. This is the challenge, to get that rolling energy to be controlled or arc directed to self cancel at a predicted range determined by forward velocity.

Although the wave is noted to be as tall as a man, most of the destructive force is the concentrated at the density at the base of the wave, the top curl has little mass in relation to its base, so unlike a rolling wake of equal height, the top curl wave shape has much lower energy at range.

The boat is beautiful, retro and very confident and commanding.

GC is a fun safe place to dream, I wish them luck and may even explore this boat with deeper interest after its been out a year or two. That is the hypocrite part of this story, I hate wakes, but I really like this boat - a lot...
 
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