GOOD CONVERSATION

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Paladin

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Most recently I had the honor and privilege of a conference call with Superintendent Shott regarding the current state of affairs at Lake Powell and the Glen Canyon Recreational Area. This call was facilitated by a long time Lake Powell house-boater and avid participant in this blog. He and I, along with representatives from the offices of Sen. Mitt Romney, Sen. Mike Lee, Representative Stewart of Utah’s 2nd District, Superintendent Shott and three of his closest aides participated in the call. The call was private, intimate and privileged and I will not repeat all that was said or discussed but would like to share with this board a bit of the discussion.

I made it clear to the group that I represented only myself as a recreationist and that I would be pursuing my recreational water rights on Lake Powell.

  • Mr. Shott assured us that he was philosophically and politically committed to the restoration of Lake Powell and bringing it back to what it once was. He is adamant about that position and I found his commentary quite reassuring.
  • All of the lost infrastructure at Lake Powell is under review for rehabilitation/replacement. The first of several feasibility studies has been contracted with Jacobs Engineering to study the replacement of such infrastructure as Dangling Rope, Rainbow Bridge, and other such mid-lake facilities including bathrooms and rest stops and fuel stations. Hall’s Marina will be rehabilitated. Hite will be rebuilt and brought back to life. Bullfrog Marina will most likely be moved from its present location and completely rebuilt. Multiple improvements will be made to the Wahweep launch facilities. How to accomplish this will arise from multiple feasibility studies from Jacobs Engineering.
  • Superintendent Shott fully supports minimum water levels in Lake Powell to preserve all of the new and improved and rehabilitated infrastructural components.
  • All of the components of the Drought Response Operations Plan (DROA) are being reviewed and future policy will be forthcoming from the BOR and the NPS. Superintendent Shott fully supports an inviolate stated level for Lake Powell below which no water will be withdrawn. This will eventually impact the Lower Basin States as they will be shorted on their allocated water. We all discussed the eventuality of this if weather conditions do not change substantially.
  • Superintendent Shott agreed with us, as recreationists, that it is bad policy to limit recreational activities on Lake Powell by constantly fiddling with water levels trying to reach a level of discharge for the Lower Basin States that is unsustainable and impractical. As non-consumptive users it is only logical that recreationists should enjoy the amenities of Lake Powell and continue its cash funding and the development of the economic impact that such cash income has on the areas surrounding the Glen Canyon Recreational Area. That requires a definable and inviolate level of water below which the lake would never go.
  • Superintendent Shott would support a minimum Lake level for Lake Powell at 3560 to 3550. This number was originally proposed by the BOR in its 2012 - 2013 report. He is confident that level would adequately support and maintain all of the new infrastructural components planned for the lake.
  • The current construction Of the Ramp at Bullfrog is going well and the ramp should be completed and be operative by May 1.
Although these are turbulent times, I feel much better about the leadership and the direction in which Lake Powell is headed. We are having a good snowpack year here in Colorado with more on the way. Some good moisture would help facilitate many of the things we discussed. We all agreed that for some sixty years Lake Powell remains a planning and engineering marvel. It has never failed to meet its duty of water storage and deliverance.
 
Most recently I had the honor and privilege of a conference call with Superintendent Shott regarding the current state of affairs at Lake Powell and the Glen Canyon Recreational Area. This call was facilitated by a long time Lake Powell house-boater and avid participant in this blog. He and I, along with representatives from the offices of Sen. Mitt Romney, Sen. Mike Lee, Representative Stewart of Utah’s 2nd District, Superintendent Shott and three of his closest aides participated in the call. The call was private, intimate and privileged and I will not repeat all that was said or discussed but would like to share with this board a bit of the discussion.

I made it clear to the group that I represented only myself as a recreationist and that I would be pursuing my recreational water rights on Lake Powell.

  • Mr. Shott assured us that he was philosophically and politically committed to the restoration of Lake Powell and bringing it back to what it once was. He is adamant about that position and I found his commentary quite reassuring.
  • All of the lost infrastructure at Lake Powell is under review for rehabilitation/replacement. The first of several feasibility studies has been contracted with Jacobs Engineering to study the replacement of such infrastructure as Dangling Rope, Rainbow Bridge, and other such mid-lake facilities including bathrooms and rest stops and fuel stations. Hall’s Marina will be rehabilitated. Hite will be rebuilt and brought back to life. Bullfrog Marina will most likely be moved from its present location and completely rebuilt. Multiple improvements will be made to the Wahweep launch facilities. How to accomplish this will arise from multiple feasibility studies from Jacobs Engineering.
  • Superintendent Shott fully supports minimum water levels in Lake Powell to preserve all of the new and improved and rehabilitated infrastructural components.
  • All of the components of the Drought Response Operations Plan (DROA) are being reviewed and future policy will be forthcoming from the BOR and the NPS. Superintendent Shott fully supports an inviolate stated level for Lake Powell below which no water will be withdrawn. This will eventually impact the Lower Basin States as they will be shorted on their allocated water. We all discussed the eventuality of this if weather conditions do not change substantially.
  • Superintendent Shott agreed with us, as recreationists, that it is bad policy to limit recreational activities on Lake Powell by constantly fiddling with water levels trying to reach a level of discharge for the Lower Basin States that is unsustainable and impractical. As non-consumptive users it is only logical that recreationists should enjoy the amenities of Lake Powell and continue its cash funding and the development of the economic impact that such cash income has on the areas surrounding the Glen Canyon Recreational Area. That requires a definable and inviolate level of water below which the lake would never go.
  • Superintendent Shott would support a minimum Lake level for Lake Powell at 3560 to 3550. This number was originally proposed by the BOR in its 2012 - 2013 report. He is confident that level would adequately support and maintain all of the new infrastructural components planned for the lake.
  • The current construction Of the Ramp at Bullfrog is going well and the ramp should be completed and be operative by May 1.
Although these are turbulent times, I feel much better about the leadership and the direction in which Lake Powell is headed. We are having a good snowpack year here in Colorado with more on the way. Some good moisture would help facilitate many of the things we discussed. We all agreed that for some sixty years Lake Powell remains a planning and engineering marvel. It has never failed to meet its duty of water storage and deliverance.
Dang! Thank you so my for sharing this! I try to always think positive and this helps a ton. Let’s all keep sending good vibes up the chain and be firm in our resolve.
 
Good work sir! Shott seems like a good talker and very personable. I hope he delivers on the facts. His Bullfrog ramp extension seems to be going well, which is a big plus after how ramps were handled at south end in 2021. We need to hang onto all the "plusses" we can get.

I would take issue with the statement you made about this year's "good snowpack". We are having a good snowpack year here in Colorado with more on the way. Please define "good". I would not say 86% of normal water equivalent is anywhere close to "good" and the next 10 days through April 8th show smallish storms which probably will not bring us back to 90%. "Good" would be 120% for low water times like these.
 
Good work sir! Shott seems like a good talker and very personable. I hope he delivers on the facts. His Bullfrog ramp extension seems to be going well, which is a big plus after how ramps were handled at south end in 2021. We need to hang onto all the "plusses" we can get.

I would take issue with the statement you made about this year's "good snowpack". We are having a good snowpack year here in Colorado with more on the way. Please define "good". I would not say 86% of normal water equivalent is anywhere close to "good" and the next 10 days through April 8th show smallish storms which probably will not bring us back to 90%. "Good" would be 120% for low water times like these.
Didn't Confucius say: 'Be happy with any dampness you may receive' ?

:unsure:
 
Thx Paladin. Was Halls Crossing launching discussed??? The minimum launch elevation is currently 3553 so a "safe" level of 3550 would still require an extension or replacement maybe in the ferry notch??
 
Most recently I had the honor and privilege of a conference call with Superintendent Shott regarding the current state of affairs at Lake Powell and the Glen Canyon Recreational Area. This call was facilitated by a long time Lake Powell house-boater and avid participant in this blog. He and I, along with representatives from the offices of Sen. Mitt Romney, Sen. Mike Lee, Representative Stewart of Utah’s 2nd District, Superintendent Shott and three of his closest aides participated in the call. The call was private, intimate and privileged and I will not repeat all that was said or discussed but would like to share with this board a bit of the discussion.

I made it clear to the group that I represented only myself as a recreationist and that I would be pursuing my recreational water rights on Lake Powell.

  • Mr. Shott assured us that he was philosophically and politically committed to the restoration of Lake Powell and bringing it back to what it once was. He is adamant about that position and I found his commentary quite reassuring.
  • All of the lost infrastructure at Lake Powell is under review for rehabilitation/replacement. The first of several feasibility studies has been contracted with Jacobs Engineering to study the replacement of such infrastructure as Dangling Rope, Rainbow Bridge, and other such mid-lake facilities including bathrooms and rest stops and fuel stations. Hall’s Marina will be rehabilitated. Hite will be rebuilt and brought back to life. Bullfrog Marina will most likely be moved from its present location and completely rebuilt. Multiple improvements will be made to the Wahweep launch facilities. How to accomplish this will arise from multiple feasibility studies from Jacobs Engineering.
  • Superintendent Shott fully supports minimum water levels in Lake Powell to preserve all of the new and improved and rehabilitated infrastructural components.
  • All of the components of the Drought Response Operations Plan (DROA) are being reviewed and future policy will be forthcoming from the BOR and the NPS. Superintendent Shott fully supports an inviolate stated level for Lake Powell below which no water will be withdrawn. This will eventually impact the Lower Basin States as they will be shorted on their allocated water. We all discussed the eventuality of this if weather conditions do not change substantially.
  • Superintendent Shott agreed with us, as recreationists, that it is bad policy to limit recreational activities on Lake Powell by constantly fiddling with water levels trying to reach a level of discharge for the Lower Basin States that is unsustainable and impractical. As non-consumptive users it is only logical that recreationists should enjoy the amenities of Lake Powell and continue its cash funding and the development of the economic impact that such cash income has on the areas surrounding the Glen Canyon Recreational Area. That requires a definable and inviolate level of water below which the lake would never go.
  • Superintendent Shott would support a minimum Lake level for Lake Powell at 3560 to 3550. This number was originally proposed by the BOR in its 2012 - 2013 report. He is confident that level would adequately support and maintain all of the new infrastructural components planned for the lake.
  • The current construction Of the Ramp at Bullfrog is going well and the ramp should be completed and be operative by May 1.
Although these are turbulent times, I feel much better about the leadership and the direction in which Lake Powell is headed. We are having a good snowpack year here in Colorado with more on the way. Some good moisture would help facilitate many of the things we discussed. We all agreed that for some sixty years Lake Powell remains a planning and engineering marvel. It has never failed to meet its duty of water storage and deliverance.
Thanks for doing this Paladin
 
Good work sir! Shott seems like a good talker and very personable. I hope he delivers on the facts. His Bullfrog ramp extension seems to be going well, which is a big plus after how ramps were handled at south end in 2021. We need to hang onto all the "plusses" we can get.

I would take issue with the statement you made about this year's "good snowpack". We are having a good snowpack year here in Colorado with more on the way. Please define "good". I would not say 86% of normal water equivalent is anywhere close to "good" and the next 10 days through April 8th show smallish storms which probably will not bring us back to 90%. "Good" would be 120% for low water times like these.
Thank you.

I do believe Superintendent Shott has our best intentions in his heart and in his soul. With a flaming progressive as Secretary of the Interior, that question was the tip of the spear and I had to ask it in its barest form. I loved what I heard and I trust Billie Shott.

Yes, the Bullfrog stuff is coming along well but Mr. Shott fully believes that Bullfrog Marina will eventually be disassembled and moved to a spot that will allow a better and more permanent geophysical area for its resurrection. It is my understanding that that stuff will appear in the second feasibility survey and they will seek funding after 1 October, this year.

I’ll take issue with your issue. I check the NRCS SNOTEL stuff, in all of its myriad iterations, every day of my life. For most of the year the Gunny and San Miguel (where I live) have hovered right at 100% of normal (both current snow equivalents and projections). The Gunny has been as high as 145% of normal. The Yampa has lagged as has the upper Colo but are coming from behind and are now twitching in and out of 100% of normal. The Rio Grande, although a hybrid, is now approaching 100% of normal and is getting pounded with snow as I write this. Wolf Creek (although in the Rio Grande drainage) is once again the world’s highest base and snowpack. Also, as a rancher (cattle) and farmer (hay), I can tell you that the “soil charge” is significantly higher than either 2019, 2020 or 2021; significantly so. We had killer fall rains and they really helped. Not on any of your charts. No more of this absorption nonsense that you have been reading about leaving the runoff to a risable “30% efficiency”. We count bales. In the prior three years Colorado did not achieve the median or average moisture production for the “snow measuring period.” As a producer, I feel pretty good about this year. As a fisher, I feel even better.

I have more work to do and I will keep the board posted. If any of you get a chance to speak with Billie Shott, give him a pat on the back and encourage him every chance you get. It is my feeling he loves this lake is much as we do.
Good work sir! Shott seems like a good talker and very personable. I hope he delivers on the facts. His Bullfrog ramp extension seems to be going well, which is a big plus after how ramps were handled at south end in 2021. We need to hang onto all the "plusses" we can get.

I would take issue with the statement you made about this year's "good snowpack". We are having a good snowpack year here in Colorado with more on the way. Please define "good". I would not say 86% of normal water equivalent is anywhere close to "good" and the next 10 days through April 8th show smallish storms which probably will not bring us back to 90%. "Good" would be 120% for low water times like these.
 
Thx Paladin. Was Halls Crossing launching discussed??? The minimum launch elevation is currently 3553 so a "safe" level of 3550 would still require an extension or replacement maybe in the ferry notch??
Yes. Mr. Shott discussed it almost in passing, as if it were a done deal. I didn't press him on it because it was quite clear that Halls will be restored. I was very encouraged to hear that.
 
Good work!

I am curious how Hite can be "brought back to life" since it is about 10 miles from the reservoir and buried in over a 100 feet of sediment? Not trying be a Debbie downer, but it seems like realistic plans to keep the remaining marinas and boat ramps functional at variable water levels is a more attainable goal....
 
Good work!

I am curious how Hite can be "brought back to life" since it is about 10 miles from the reservoir and buried in over a 100 feet of sediment? Not trying be a Debbie downer, but it seems like realistic plans to keep the remaining marinas and boat ramps functional at variable water levels is a more attainable goal....
Don't know Hite, never been there. My view of it is what you describe.
However, one thing that I have been harping about is the cash generation developed by the Glen Canyon National Recreational Area and its effects on the local economies. Billie Shott is all over this and is adamant about not only preserving it but expanding it. He pointed out something that I have very little knowledge of: Hite will be rebuilt to support a massive influx of floaters, rafters, paddle boarders and kayakers.
He stated clearly that an RFP was issued and the vendor accepted and that they will start construction in the very near future.
Again, sorry but I know very little about this other than than what I heard during the conversation.
 
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Don't know Hite, never been there. My view of it is what you describe.
However, one thing that I have been harping about is the cash generation developed by the Glen Canyon National Recreational Area and its effects on the local economies. Billie Shott is all over this and is adamant about not only preserving it but expanding it. He pointed out something that I have very little knowledge of: Hite will be rebuilt to support a massive influx of floaters, rafters, paddle boarders and kayakers.
He stated clearly that an RFP was issued and the vendor accepted and that they will start construction in the very near future.
Again, sorry but I know very little about this other than than what I heard during the conversation.
This is what I have heard as well. The focus of Hite will be management of river rafting activities. There has been major concern about the lack of a good take out in the area and it will be delivered at Hite Marina from here on out with construction of a new take out. I don't know how massive the influx will be but cataract canyon has always had a good name.
 
Thanks for the update... IMHO though when politicians are involved it's just lip service.
 
One thing to recall here is that Superintendent Schott, working for NPS, has no control over lake levels. That all falls to the Bureau of Reclamation, and is subject to both hydrology and larger interstate agendas that have been discussed extensively on this site. Therefore, although he might certainly support an "inviolate water level" because this would make his job a lot easier in terms of planning and managing recreational infrastructure, he has basically zero ability to implement that. And trying to hold Lake Powell at a permanent level of 3560 is probably a fantasy, at least for the next few years. It also needs to be borne in mind that feasibility studies are generally the first step in a very long road that then proceeds through design and finally to construction. So if they are in that phase for the facilities discussed, then it will be at least two years before any of those projects starts to get built. Who knows what the lake will look like by then. But on the good side, at least they are undertaking some forward planning, presumably incorporating a variety of future lake level scenarios.
 
One thing to recall here is that Superintendent Schott, working for NPS, has no control over lake levels. That all falls to the Bureau of Reclamation, and is subject to both hydrology and larger interstate agendas that have been discussed extensively on this site. Therefore, although he might certainly support an "inviolate water level" because this would make his job a lot easier in terms of planning and managing recreational infrastructure, he has basically zero ability to implement that. And trying to hold Lake Powell at a permanent level of 3560 is probably a fantasy, at least for the next few years. It also needs to be borne in mind that feasibility studies are generally the first step in a very long road that then proceeds through design and finally to construction. So if they are in that phase for the facilities discussed, then it will be at least two years before any of those projects starts to get built. Who knows what the lake will look like by then. But on the good side, at least they are undertaking some forward planning, presumably incorporating a variety of future lake level scenarios.
That was my very first thought upon reading the OP. Schott may have the very best of intentions with regards to a stable lake level, but implementing that is completely and totally out of his hands. In the end, there are only three "inviolate water levels". 3700' (full pool), 3370' (dead pool) and 3132' (no dam). Outside of those, the water level year-to-year is totally in the hands of nature and the BOR in line with law of the river (ie, the Compact then the Drought Contingency plans). The latter - if it changes - will be decided by negotiations between the seven states and Mexico, with or without the involvement of the Supreme Court and possibly Congress. Not by Billy Schott and the NPS.
 
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One thing to recall here is that Superintendent Schott, working for NPS, has no control over lake levels. That all falls to the Bureau of Reclamation, and is subject to both hydrology and larger interstate agendas that have been discussed extensively on this site. Therefore, although he might certainly support an "inviolate water level" because this would make his job a lot easier in terms of planning and managing recreational infrastructure, he has basically zero ability to implement that. And trying to hold Lake Powell at a permanent level of 3560 is probably a fantasy, at least for the next few years. It also needs to be borne in mind that feasibility studies are generally the first step in a very long road that then proceeds through design and finally to construction. So if they are in that phase for the facilities discussed, then it will be at least two years before any of those projects starts to get built. Who knows what the lake will look like by then. But on the good side, at least they are undertaking some forward planning, presumably incorporating a variety of future lake level scenarios.
Dead nuts on!!

I started with Supr. Shott to make sure he is on our side; he is. He is also responsible for the millions of dollars of lost assets due to lowering the lake levels. Remember also, that since my visit to Bullfrog the first week of December, there has been no revenue generated for the park from the north end. Nada, zip.

The BOR is the next visit. My efforts are coalescing and we are putting together a substantial task force and will be speaking directly with the BOR as soon as we are organized. No one will be talking to anyone until we are organized and strong enough to be effective. It is my hope the BOR will be amenable to a rational lake level. I think they will welcome support and guidance as to how to accomplish the most benefit to all the stakeholders. We all know the value (probably trillions) of Lower Basin water but the day of reckoning is coming. Besides, recreational water users supply in excess of $500,000,000 per year to the federal coffers. Their economic multiplier is 10; that’s $5.8 billion annual economic benefit to the region. THEY ALSO HAVE ZERO CONSUMPTIVE CONFLICT WITH LOWER BASIN USERS. An inviolate water level does not deprive anyone of their legal allotment. Lake Powell cannot indefinitely supply more water than it takes in.

We will also be a new stakeholder with new ideas and new conversations.

Don’t kid yourself, our government is not going to dump tens of millions of dollars into Lake Powell improvements and watch it be pissed away by an arbitrary and rogue BOR. In my dealings in the past I have always been more successful with the BOR than either the BLM or USFR. (Ha! That’s probably not saying much.)

It is my understanding the iteration of the first feasibility study will be completed in time for a 1 October funding request for the first level of projects.

Thank you for your genuine interest in Lake Powell. We are just getting started.


One thing to recall here is that Superintendent Schott, working for NPS, has no control over lake levels. That all falls to the Bureau of Reclamation, and is subject to both hydrology and larger interstate agendas that have been discussed extensively on this site. Therefore, although he might certainly support an "inviolate water level" because this would make his job a lot easier in terms of planning and managing recreational infrastructure, he has basically zero ability to implement that. And trying to hold Lake Powell at a permanent level of 3560 is probably a fantasy, at least for the next few years. It also needs to be borne in mind that feasibility studies are generally the first step in a very long road that then proceeds through design and finally to construction. So if they are in that phase for the facilities discussed, then it will be at least two years before any of those projects starts to get built. Who knows what the lake will look like by then. But on the good side, at least they are undertaking some forward planning, presumably incorporating a variety of future lake level scenarios.

That was my very first thought upon reading the OP. Schott may have the very best of intentions with regards to a stable lake level, but implementing that is completely and totally out of his hands. In the end, there are only three "inviolate water levels". 3700' (full pool), 3370' (dead pool) and 3132' (no dam). Outside of those, the water level year-to-year is totally in the hands of nature and the law of the river (ie, the Compact then the Drought Contingency plans). The latter - if it changes - will be decided by negotiations between the seven states and Mexico, with or without the involvement of the Supreme Court and possibly Congress. Not by Billy Schott.
"negotiations"...exactly. By then it will be a long way from any of us.

No one is going to court over this. There's an old saying: "When you're outta Bud, you're outta beer.
 
Great work Paladin. You sound like the “bird dog” who will stick to this until something gets done. As stated by most of the other posts, the runoff this year is out of our hands. If it’s going to be a “good” spring, may that go straight from from your lips to God’s ears.
 
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