Engine oil thoughts for our toys...

R

Rainbowbridge

Keeper of San Juan Secrets
Hi All,

Well unless you row, paddle, or trust the wind, you gotta have an engine to do anything on our Lake. In the olde days with 2 strokes, no oil concerns, but now things have really changed.

Since the 50s when my Dad owned an Amoco station, I've been curious about what's the 'right' gas & oil to maximize engine life, performance & efficiency.

Especially on boats, where water doesn't compress and our engines are usually under constant load.

Would love to hear your thoughts...and wanted to share this fascinating video:

Testing different oils over 4 years and 1 MILLION miles​


P.S. Had an avid fisherman biz partner whom owned a 40 footer in the 70s who'd say: I don't particularly like boats or their maintenance, but they are useful in taking me to the fish.... 🐟
 
two comments of the above:
1. interesting topic, rbb. we’re bigtime synthetic proponents
in all our petroleum engine driven assets.
2. never heard of bobistheoilguy, tr. but i surely enjoyed the
article you posted, and am pleased there is no stinking test.
👍👍to both of you. nice edumacashun.
 
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Another thought about that educational (for moi) tear down video....obviously synthetic is mucho better....(y)

500,000 miles ./. 60MPH = appx 8,300 engine hours ./. 70 mph = appx engine 7,000 hours

I was always told by mechanics, now known as technicians.... :cool: that boat engines rarely can get 3,000 hours before rebuild, because of the constant load.

Add to that the national avg is only 70 engine hours on a boat per year....so our engines should last a long time.

Anyone know the avg rebuild hours on the rental houseboat engine? And the oil change schedule? :unsure:
 
I'm not any kind of expert but I have a few beliefs about it:

A: Using the manufacturers recommended weights is always good starting point/fall back. B: Change your oil often even if it's synthetic, I go by color not hours. C: Use a quality filter and change it with every oil swap too(you'd be surprized) D: Because of the heavy load and long constant run times oil can get contaminated and broken down faster in a boat engine, more blow by is likely. E: I read that all engines are oil cooled and some are both oil and water cooled.🤔So oil not only lubricates but helps distribute heat and it's the thermal cycle not only run time that breaks down its viscosity. It's also there to get contaminates from combustion out when you change it.
F: In most inboards they use flat tappet motors not roller valve train like nearly every modern vehicle. There is extreme pressure between flat tappets and cam lobes and as I understand it a zink additive is the best way to help lubricate under high pressure. As I understand it Zink is disappearing from most motor oils. I use oils with Zink in them on every flat tapped motor I own.

I like conventional Shell Rotella 15/40 Heavy Duty. I have 3500 hours on my houseboat engines. I did full tuneups on both and changed their oil this week. As part of my tuneups up I ran a compression test and had 150 lbs across the board. I maybe change my oil more often than necessary but Rotella is cheap, I get it at WM here in Page, it's $16.00 a gallon. They also carry a dead weight 30 in Rotella and I run that in my Westerbeke. I use shop grade filters from Napa here in page. I always keep enough supplies for oils changes onboard. I believe keeping a close eye on it and changing it often is the most important part. With my electric extraction pump and a five gallon bucked with a lid around I can do an oil change in about 10 minutes for under $25.00. I was always told that "oil is cheaper than steel"

That's my two cents and I sometimes wear my lucky flip flops and swim trunks too when I do the work, just in case
 
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Thanks for your input.....perhaps 'more often' oil changes on our constant load engines are maybe even more useful than synthetic offers.

AND Maybe more often changes PLUS full synthetic is at this time the best policy for us wordlings.... :unsure:

methinks this is a changing paradigm (not 20cents)......:cool:

I ask on my other Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, & other boat forums: What have you seen that's new & useful?

No One, Marina Bum, has ever mentioned 'Lucky flip flops'.......you may have started a useful trend.......:cool:

Thanks for the thoughts & real world experience folks share here......(y)
 
Marina Bum said:
I'm not any kind of expert but I have a few beliefs about it:

A: Using the manufacturers recommended weights is always good starting point/fall back. B: Change your oil often even if it's synthetic, I go by color not hours. C: Use a quality filter and change it with every oil swap too(you'd be surprized) D: Because of the heavy load and long constant run times oil can get contaminated and broken down faster in a boat engine, more blow by is likely. E: I read that all engines are oil cooled and some are both oil and water cooled.🤔So oil not only lubricates but helps distribute heat and it's the thermal cycle not only run time that breaks down its viscosity. It's also there to get contaminates from combustion out when you change it.
F: In most inboards they use flat tappet motors not roller valve train like nearly every modern vehicle. There is extreme pressure between flat tappets and cam lobes and as I understand it a zink additive is the best way to help lubricate under high pressure. As I understand it Zink is disappearing from most motor oils. I use oils with Zink in them on every flat tapped motor I own.

I like conventional Shell Rotella 15/40 Heavy Duty. I have 3500 hours on my houseboat engines. I did full tuneups on both and changed their oil this week. As part of my tuneups up I ran a compression test and had 150 lbs across the board. I maybe change my oil more often than necessary but Rotella is cheap, I get it at WM here in Page, it's $16.00 a gallon. They also carry a dead weight 30 in Rotella and I run that in my Westerbeke. I use shop grade filters from Napa here in page. I always keep enough supplies for oils changes onboard. I believe keeping a close eye on it and changing it often is the most important part. With my electric extraction pump and a five gallon bucked with a lid around I can do an oil change in about 10 minutes for surprized $25.00. I was always told that "oil is cheaper than steel"

That's my two cents and I sometimes wear my lucky flip flops and swim trunks too when I do the work too, just in case
Click to expand...
Did a bunch of research on oils and their levels of ZDDP. Some is good, alot is bad. Turns out Shell Rotella T4 15/40 Heavy Duty has 1200 to 1400 ppm zinc. Perfect! You don't need to add any as that would be just as destructive as too little. Works well with flat tappet cams as well as roller sticks. I have 3 boats one of which is a flat tappet jet boat, the other 2 are rollers. Probably not good on engines with cats, tends too coat and ruin the matrix. Even though it is dinosaur oil, it's GOOD STUFF! Just my humble opinion.
 
Sampson767 said:
I use Rotella T4 15-40W in all my low performance 4 stroke engines. lawn mower, pressure washer, generator, 4 wheeler, yamaha rhino, boat 4.3, mini bikes. Has always performed well! Nice to not stock a bunch of different oil
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It is nice not to stock a bunch of different fluids. Unfortunately , most engines are engineered for specific Lubricants. Lots of farmers blew up engines in the 90s when they kept putting 1540 in engines design for 520 and 530. Many engines are now designed with very small lubricant passages and clearances which do not allow thick oil to flow properly. Just because it's working doesn't mean you're not shortening engine life. Similar Situation with fluids is engine coolant. Some manufacturers require phosphates in coolant. Some manufacturers require no phosphates in coolants. Therefore universal coolant is impossible but it is sold everywhere
 
So I will add that my yami on my flats boat is a 2003 2 stroke and I always add Yamalube to the fuel and use Yamaha fluids made for two strokes. Does it really work better than anything else, or nothing at all? No clue. But if the manufacturer makes it (or at least claims they do) and recommends it, I’ll pay a little more weekly for the *potential* to not have to buy a new engine any time soon.

TR
 
Bill Sampson said:
When I bought my Mastercraft in 1992 they recommended Mobil 1, which I have always used. So far so good.
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In 1992, there was only 1 mobile 1, and it was a true synthetic. Now there are five different 5w30 mobile one not all are 100% *percent true synthetic. True synthetics are made from different base Stocks. The courts determined all oil is synthetic after a case about semi synthetic oil. Really muddied the waters in determining what is a true PAO or PAE (iirc) oil. 40 years in auto repair that class was a long time ago.
 
Jyboat said:
Did a bunch of research on oils and their levels of ZDDP. Some is good, alot is bad. Turns out Shell Rotella T4 15/40 Heavy Duty has 1200 to 1400 ppm zinc. Perfect! You don't need to add any as that would be just as destructive as too little. Works well with flat tappet cams as well as roller sticks. I have 3 boats one of which is a flat tappet jet boat, the other 2 are rollers. Probably not good on engines with cats, tends too coat and ruin the matrix. Even though it is dinosaur oil, it's GOOD STUFF! Just my humble opinion.
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I like your post, I have dinosaur engines as inboards so dinosaur oil suits them. My three liter Mercury 4 cylinders hail back to Pontiac in the 1970's as a 2.3 liter engine and then GM started using it all over the place. Mercury stroked it to the max to get to three liters but it's all antique these days, my motors are 25 years old now, my HB is a 1998.

Most inboards on the lake have similar heritage, lots of old GM and Ford engines converted for marine use. Most of those engine designs date back to the 50's and 60's and are all flat tappet engines. Many Inboard powered boats of the 2000's/2010's era have those motors too even though many of them were fuel injected and had fancy plastic engine covers. Still antique architecture.

I'm not making any recommendations for others, it's just what I do. Is it right, IDK Like you I have multiple boats and I've got other older cars and trucks too. I'm running Rotella in all my diesels and all my boats and in anything else with a really hammered on old engine in it, Im happy with it.
 
mobilerat said:
It is nice not to stock a bunch of different fluids. Unfortunately , most engines are engineered for specific Lubricants. Lots of farmers blew up engines in the 90s when they kept putting 1540 in engines design for 520 and 530. Many engines are now designed with very small lubricant passages and clearances which do not allow thick oil to flow properly. Just because it's working doesn't mean you're not shortening engine life. Similar Situation with fluids is engine coolant. Some manufacturers require phosphates in coolant. Some manufacturers require no phosphates in coolants. Therefore universal coolant is impossible but it is sold everywhere
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Great post...many online folks agree with your take on 'very small lubricant passages' need thinner oil

Esp in VVT (variable valve timing) engines. I once dated a gal mechanic who always claimed thicker was better. Her variable timing was often a tad off.... :cool:

Your take on coolants is also right on, IMO. The wrong coolant can ruin an engine & damage heat exchangers.

Kinda fun we all use the same coolant in our 'raw water' cooled toys...our cool Lake.....;)
 
Rainbowbridge said:
Great post...many online folks agree with your take on 'very small lubricant passages' need thinner oil

Esp in VVT (variable valve timing) engines. I once dated a gal mechanic who always claimed thicker was better. Her variable timing was often a tad off.... :cool:

Your take on coolants is also right on, IMO. The wrong coolant can ruin an engine & damage heat exchangers.

Kinda fun we all use the same coolant in our 'raw water' cooled toys...our cool Lake.....;)
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I had a VTEC Honda that required 5W20. Every time I took it to the local tire shop for an oil change they would use 10W30. My mileage would immediately drop by 10%. Precision engines require use of the designated oil.
 
I remember as a young gear head in the early 80's when synthetic oils first showed up for cars and trucks that it was $35 a quart at my local parts store. It was supposed to be a miracle lubricant but I just couldn't get over the price, Conventional Oil was a dollar a quart in a round paper based can at the time.
 
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