Bullfrog gas Accident

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I ran into a guy last night that was on the fuel dock at the same time as the explosion . He had never witnessed a worse display of first response in his life then he did that Friday afternoon. with every one . They really need to have safety leasons. As said mistakes happen and will continue to happen so every one needs to know what to do when this strikes again .
 
Maybe they just want the tip!!!

I think there may be something to that. It does depend on who is available, how busy they are, and if they're paying attention.

When I pull in to the fuel dock (DR and BF) in my bowrider, more than 80% of the time I'm ignored and have to self-serve. If I pull in with the houseboat, I often get "Johnny OnTheSpot" as my attendant. He stays with me the entire time, gets me tied to the dock, does all of the fueling, asks if he can get me propane or anything else, takes care of payment, and then (usually politely) hangs around long enough for a tip. And I'm glad to give one for that kind of service.

I think maybe they've given up on bowriders, wakeboats, fishing boats, and others for tips - and so they adjust their level of attentiveness. Like most, I don't need help fueling the bowrider and so any tip would be much smaller (assuming they did something worth tipping for).

Wow, that was more than I meant to write. Sorry for the tangent! What I meant to write was that when I have an attendant helping, they've been pretty good to remind everyone about getting everything shutdown and closed up for fueling, ventilating afterward, etc. But when we're doing the self-serve routine without help, it's on us to remember to do those things.
 
I never get any offer for assistance or pumping at all at either D.R. or Bullfrog. But I'm in a 24' boat, so maybe that's why.
 
I think there may be something to that. It does depend on who is available, how busy they are, and if they're paying attention.

When I pull in to the fuel dock (DR and BF) in my bowrider, more than 80% of the time I'm ignored and have to self-serve. If I pull in with the houseboat, I often get "Johnny OnTheSpot" as my attendant. He stays with me the entire time, gets me tied to the dock, does all of the fueling, asks if he can get me propane or anything else, takes care of payment, and then (usually politely) hangs around long enough for a tip. And I'm glad to give one for that kind of service.

I think maybe they've given up on bowriders, wakeboats, fishing boats, and others for tips - and so they adjust their level of attentiveness. Like most, I don't need help fueling the bowrider and so any tip would be much smaller (assuming they did something worth tipping for).

Wow, that was more than I meant to write. Sorry for the tangent! What I meant to write was that when I have an attendant helping, they've been pretty good to remind everyone about getting everything shutdown and closed up for fueling, ventilating afterward, etc. But when we're doing the self-serve routine without help, it's on us to remember to do those things.


We always fueled our own boat at DR. They would normally be there to throw a rope, but George always did the fueling himself and I always turned on the blower as soon as he was done.... normally I handed the trash off to him and he would walk down to dump the trash and then catch me at the pump out, and then he would walk down to the store area to motion me were he wanted me to dock the boat and tie us off while we went into the store, but each time, I automatically ran the blower before I'd start the engine. In our deck boat we always raised the back to make sure it was well-vented, the engine sat much lower in our tri-tune and about the only flaw in the boat design was the location of the vents, had to be really careful not to have anything sitting in front of the vent inside the boat.
 
BF fuel dock was open Sunday; they also told me they has sent two people to Halls and it was open. IDK whats really going on at Halls
I talked with one of the exec services captains on Sunday and he said Halls is open with only 91 octane. Said it would cost too much to expedite all the parts so they only did it for the 91, as there were a lot of complaints about not having high octane on the water.

Supposedly waiting on ParkmServixe to approve the new Halls fuel dock to get it fully operational.
 
Glad that there is 91 up North again. Sure wish they would offer ethanol free. I'd be willing to pay for it.

And I a surprised at all the negative experiences with the fuel dock. The attendants always are willing to help me out. I usually refuse the help as my boats have always been finicky, and I try to avoid them burping fuel. But they do always stay to chat, and help me push off when it is time to leave.

I don't think I have ever been rushed by the crew to leave.

One thing I have learned is that you should NEVER trust them to fend your boat off from the dock (which I guess is understandable) , or rely on them to tie you up to the dock (especially early in the season).

Reminds me of one of my favorite boating sayings. "never approach a dock faster than you are willing to hit it". :)
 
You know what "peer pressure" is, right?

That's when you get your hand (or foot) caught between a boat and dock!

On a more serious note and hopefully not a dumb question - I've heard that ethanol is added to the underground storage tanks at gas stations at the time the tanker delivers fuel- is that true? Anyone in the petroleum industry that would know for sure?
 
Very sad and hope the family will fully recover. We left Bullfrog that morning and weren't around for the event, but I fueled the houseboat the previous day and got great service from the attendant. I will say that it wasn't very busy. When we were finished he walked us back to the boat after paying and said, "I'll cast you off whenever you're ready." He wasn't pressuring us to get off the dock, but he would have happily cast our lines off right then. I told him I needed to run the blower; after 5 minutes and checking the engine compartment, I fired up the engines and we cast off. Not sure what the experience would have been like if the dock had been busy, but I do think that the attendants should be instructing vessels to run their blowers prior to firing up. Had he reminded me, I could have turned it on while walking to the store to pay and been ready when we got back to the boat.

Fire and explosions are one of my huge fears on the water. It's easy to get complacent with gasoline, but it is very volatile. After the two recent incidents on Powell, I am going to suggest to our ownership group that we purchase an explosive fume detector like this one (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MTP39A1/_encoding=UTF8) to protect the engine compartment on the houseboat.
 
You know what "peer pressure" is, right?

That's when you get your hand (or foot) caught between a boat and dock!

On a more serious note and hopefully not a dumb question - I've heard that ethanol is added to the underground storage tanks at gas stations at the time the tanker delivers fuel- is that true? Anyone in the petroleum industry that would know for sure?

Eth is mixed at the refinery, depending on who you use, and I can only speak of Sinclair. I have heard that the Sinclair contract with Aramark states no more then 15% ethel, the problem is what the person ordered before your, if the tanker is caring e85 then your e15 load, whats your mix from the leftover, because a tanker never truly drains. IMO the biggest problem is phase separation here because of the heat then the humidity during monsoon, but that's my opinion, and you never know what the barges are looking like for dangling. just my 2cents
 
I ran into a guy last night that was on the fuel dock at the same time as the explosion . He had never witnessed a worse display of first response in his life then he did that Friday afternoon. with every one . They really need to have safety leasons. As said mistakes happen and will continue to happen so every one needs to know what to do when this strikes again .

As to the emergency services in Bullfrog, I wasn't there, so I don't have any first hand (or even second hand other than what I've seen on this board) knowledge. That being said, I think it's advisable not to get injured there because your first-responders are not very well trained. Nothing against the NPS Rangers, but being EMTs is not their primary responsibility and it seems like they have minimal training with little opportunity to practice those skills. Serving on a ship, I got qualified as an MPIC (Medical Person In Charge), which is a USCG qualification for mariners. The level of training is somewhere between basic EMT and Paramedic, and, if I'm on a ship, I'm technically qualified to do sutures and administer an IV, along with other emergency medical procedures. That being said, I'm not the person you want doing any of those things; I have done sutures once on a pigs foot and administered 2 IVs, all during training. That stuff wasn't really my job, it was a collateral duty and one that I got to practice very little since, thankfully, people weren't injured that often. I like having the skill-set, but I'm a little squeamish around other people's blood, which isn't a great trait for your emergency medical personnel to have.

While we were down working on Serenity during the winter my dad slipped on the boarding ladder and banged up his leg. He was worried he might have broken something, so we tried the clinic, which is when we found out the 24/7 clinic is only open 8-5 on Friday during the winter. We called NPS and they had some of their EMT trained Rangers meet us at the clinic with their ambulance to take a look at it. During the exam, I quickly realized that I had more medical training than they did. I'd pretty much decided it wasn't broken (it wasn't), but their exam pretty much concluded with a shrug of their shoulders and directions to ice it. I was surprised that they didn't really have any advice line to call; on the ship, we could call our medical staff ashore 24/7 for direction on injury or illness diagnosis and treatment; civilian vessels usually have a contract with a medical assistance company that provides the same services to their MPICs. It seems like NPS should have a similar service available to the EMTs when in remote locations.

Again, nothing against the first responders in Bullfrog; it's definitely not a job I would want. It's probably a group of volunteers and people who have it as secondary responsibilities to their regular day jobs. If you're lucky, there's someone that is very interested in gaining those skills; I've seen several Junior Officers that took the MPIC designation as a second calling and spent copious amounts of time keeping current; virtually living in the Sickbay during their off hours. Other times, like when I was forced to go to MPIC training, there's no one that's interested in it and you have to have someone. I'm sure with the clinic fully staffed in the summer you have more competent medical personnel available, but that does not mean they are trained as first responders. I'm not sure what the answer is, but agree that regular drills would probably be a good start. On a ship you have to do a full walk through fire drill every week (dress out in turnout gear, have a simulated fire, go through the entire process for extinguishing said fire, etc.); it was a pain and ate up about half a day along with the abandon ship drills, but it kept our skills fresh and ready.
 
As to the emergency services in Bullfrog, I wasn't there, so I don't have any first hand (or even second hand other than what I've seen on this board) knowledge. That being said, I think it's advisable not to get injured there because your first-responders are not very well trained. Nothing against the NPS Rangers, but being EMTs is not their primary responsibility and it seems like they have minimal training with little opportunity to practice those skills. Serving on a ship, I got qualified as an MPIC (Medical Person In Charge), which is a USCG qualification for mariners. The level of training is somewhere between basic EMT and Paramedic, and, if I'm on a ship, I'm technically qualified to do sutures and administer an IV, along with other emergency medical procedures. That being said, I'm not the person you want doing any of those things; I have done sutures once on a pigs foot and administered 2 IVs, all during training. That stuff wasn't really my job, it was a collateral duty and one that I got to practice very little since, thankfully, people weren't injured that often. I like having the skill-set, but I'm a little squeamish around other people's blood, which isn't a great trait for your emergency medical personnel to have.

While we were down working on Serenity during the winter my dad slipped on the boarding ladder and banged up his leg. He was worried he might have broken something, so we tried the clinic, which is when we found out the 24/7 clinic is only open 8-5 on Friday during the winter. We called NPS and they had some of their EMT trained Rangers meet us at the clinic with their ambulance to take a look at it. During the exam, I quickly realized that I had more medical training than they did. I'd pretty much decided it wasn't broken (it wasn't), but their exam pretty much concluded with a shrug of their shoulders and directions to ice it. I was surprised that they didn't really have any advice line to call; on the ship, we could call our medical staff ashore 24/7 for direction on injury or illness diagnosis and treatment; civilian vessels usually have a contract with a medical assistance company that provides the same services to their MPICs. It seems like NPS should have a similar service available to the EMTs when in remote locations.

Again, nothing against the first responders in Bullfrog; it's definitely not a job I would want. It's probably a group of volunteers and people who have it as secondary responsibilities to their regular day jobs. If you're lucky, there's someone that is very interested in gaining those skills; I've seen several Junior Officers that took the MPIC designation as a second calling and spent copious amounts of time keeping current; virtually living in the Sickbay during their off hours. Other times, like when I was forced to go to MPIC training, there's no one that's interested in it and you have to have someone. I'm sure with the clinic fully staffed in the summer you have more competent medical personnel available, but that does not mean they are trained as first responders. I'm not sure what the answer is, but agree that regular drills would probably be a good start. On a ship you have to do a full walk through fire drill every week (dress out in turnout gear, have a simulated fire, go through the entire process for extinguishing said fire, etc.); it was a pain and ate up about half a day along with the abandon ship drills, but it kept our skills fresh and ready.
Ive been going to the Lake for close to 4 decades, I enjoy it very much, Trust me I am very thankful for all the workers down there, how ever watching the way the emergency went down with the gas explosion I would think every one could get on the same page in the future.
 
I've never been handed the nozzle. Maybe they just want the tip!!!

I always gas up my own boat, I never let the attendants do it. Reason being in 1981 my little sister went to gas up the boat at Hall Crossing and topped it off..but only added 2-3 gallons of gas..the line had an air bubble. This boat was notorious for that. She thought it was full. She didn't know the boat would need 20+ gallons. I saw the attendant do the same thing later..so after that I always fuel it myself.


.......
About emergency response: I have seen a great response at Lake Powell....long time ago.

In the early 1980's while we were gassing up the houseboat at Hall Crossing, another houseboat caught fire. They did not put out their pilot light.
The gas pumps were shut off immediately, the response team then did a great job, the fire was under control and extinguished very quickly. The other gas attendants pushed away all the other boats.

The best part no one was hurt. (and the free gas).
 
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